Yet another mini lathe question

[Alan ShepherdParticipant @alanshepherd38544]

Hello folks,

I've been reading up on various posts about mini lathes, and almost clicked "pay now" on a Sieg SC3 from Arc.

Someone on here suggested also suggested looking at Amadeal, who currently have a good looking package deal on an AMA714B (sadly Arc only do packages on the SC2)

Has anyone on here had much experience with the AMA714B or with Armadeal generally,?

Yours baffled,

Alan

[Alan ShepherdParticipant @alanshepherd38544]

Any experience of an AMA714B

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Alan, welcome to the forum. As far as your question goes, I have no experience with either lathe and nor have I purchased one from either of said parties. I really think it will be a matter of what you are looking for in a lathe, but you can't really compare these two as they have different features that set their ticket price. I know which one I'd choose if I was looking to buy one, but you shouldn't let a bundle persuade you unless it contains what you are actually looking for. Look at the machine specs first to see which one is the most likely one to fill your needs. At the end of the day only you can decide which will have the best value that you will be using it for.

If you have specific things you are going to do with a lathe and are not sure what you need, I'm sure someone would be able to help you with those, which may help you decide which lathe to buy.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 03/12/2022 21:11:00

[HuubParticipant @huub]

Posted by Nicholas Farr on 03/12/2022 21:04:47:

you shouldn't let a bundle persuade you unless it contains what you are actually looking for. Look at the machine specs first to see which one is the most likely one to fill your needs.

I agree with the above.

Keep in mind, whatever you choose, it is always a compromise. Pick the one that will do most of your jobs with "little effort". There will always jobs that are hard to do and some that can't be done on the lathe of your choice.

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

I have had a Sieg SC3 for a few years bought from Arc.

I have been very satisfied from the start – but I have never used a lathe from Amadeal – and that's the rub – few of us have extended experience of more than one version of the minilathe.

From what I have read and heard – a lathe from Amadeal will do everything it ought to do – but my recommendation from personal experience can only be to buy the SC3 from Arc.

Edited By Nick Clarke 3 on 03/12/2022 21:54:48

[Alan ShepherdParticipant @alanshepherd38544]

Thanks. I'm a little lost as i can't really see any obvious specification difference between the two. What spec sheets don't tell me is build quality and use ability, but while I can find plenty of feedback on the Sieg, the Amadeal lathe is more of an unknown.

[Stuart Smith 5Participant @stuartsmith5]

Alan

I bought an Amadeal CJ18a lathe about 4 years ago. It was a new hobby for me so I didn’t want to spend too much at the time. I looked online at the various similar lathes available and this one was cheapest and it came with a 100mm chuck. The others had an 80mm chuck. It has a brushed motor and I think if I was buying now I would go for the brushless motor. The torque at low speeds is not great and I understand that brushless motors are better.

It was delivered quickly and met my expectations for a low cost hobby machine. One of the handles broke the first time I used it ( I think it must have been damaged in transit). I rang Amadeal and they sent me a replacement which arrived the next day. Overall I have been happy with the lathe and the service from Amadeal. I have managed to break one of the plastic drive gears and the lead screw gear in the time I have had it and Amadeal stock spares at a reasonable price. I also later bought an Er collet chuck for the lathe which had severe runout. I contacted Amadeal and they sent a replacement. Unfortunately this was the same. Amadeal refunded me the cost and postage straightaway.

Although I haven’t bought a machine from Arceurotrade, I have bought accessories a few times and they have always been delivered quickly.

Regarding packages, you may be better buying the lathe and essential accessories first and then you can decide later on what you want. The trouble with packages is they may include items you don’t really need. On the other hand if they are heavily discounted it may make sense.

Hope this helps, but only you can decide which to get based on your priorities.

Stuart

Edited By Stuart Smith 5 on 03/12/2022 23:06:09

Edited By Stuart Smith 5 on 03/12/2022 23:06:54

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

My first lathe was an Amadeal CJ18 and I have to say it was a bit rough around the edges and no way set up or correctly adjusted. I spent a couple of days stripping it down cleaning and adjusting, it worked well enough as mini lathes do and it was reliable. Amadeals service was ok and they did me a good deal for just the bare bones lathe with no extras. I have no experience of the Sieg lathes but I have one of their small mills which has proved to be excellent.

Arc are known for their great service so you won't have problems there.

When I started a number of guys here steered me away from sets which proved to be good advice, I bought tooling and cutters as jobs dictated which kept the initial outlay down and spread the cost whilst I was learning.

[Alan ShepherdParticipant @alanshepherd38544]

Thanks Nicholas. The amain things I want out of the package are a 4-jaw chuck and quick chage tool post, and the extra for the package price over the bare machine is worth it just for these much less the extra tooling.

 

There's a truly daunting range of machines out there, many of which look identicle on the surface at least!

 

Alan

 

Posted by Huub on 03/12/2022 21:40:03:

Posted by Nicholas Farr on 03/12/2022 21:04:47:

you shouldn't let a bundle persuade you unless it contains what you are actually looking for. Look at the machine specs first to see which one is the most likely one to fill your needs.

 

I agree with the above.

Keep in mind, whatever you choose, it is always a compromise. Pick the one that will do most of your jobs with "little effort". There will always jobs that are hard to do and some that can't be done on the lathe of your choice.

 

Edited By Alan Shepherd on 04/12/2022 09:31:05

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Alan Shepherd on 03/12/2022 22:32:20:

Thanks. I'm a little lost as i can't really see any obvious specification difference between the two. What spec sheets don't tell me is build quality and use ability, but while I can find plenty of feedback on the Sieg, the Amadeal lathe is more of an unknown.

 

The main differences between the two are.

SC3 has 400mm between ctrs, the 714 is 350mm between ctrs so you can get longer jobs in the SC3 or use longer tooling like large drills in the SC3. Related to this the Amadeal in the "deal" photo looks to have a lead screw cover though it seems to be coming apart, this may also limit the amount of carriage movement.

The second main difference is that the 714 has two speed ranges – Hi and Low. Advantage is it may have a bit more grunt in the lower range but not tried one, the downside is you read a lot about stripped gears. Amadeal don't make it clear if the bundle is the plastic or metal geared version. The SC3 has direct drive from the motor so no gears to worry about, quieter running particularly compared with the metal geared 714 and to change to any speed speed it's just a case of twisting the knob. Geared one needs motor stopped, ideally loosen motor to shift belt, retighten motor and then you can start up again. I've a couple of the Siegs (mills) with the direct drive and they work well for me and certainly a lot quieter than my hi-low geared mill.

I don't know what the actual wattage is that Amadeal quote for their motor but quite a few suppliers quote the input not what actually comes out. The SC3 motor rating is for its actual output

Also ask yourself why ARC are doing the deal on the SC2, could it be the SC3 is a far more popular choice and they can sell those more easily than the smaller machines as people have felt the extra length does matter in this case and are trying to shift the stock of SC2s

I know which of the two I would opt for but will keep that to myself as some will say I have a bias

 

 

Edited By JasonB on 04/12/2022 10:21:35

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Alan Shepherd on 03/12/2022 22:32:20:

Thanks. I'm a little lost as i can't really see any obvious specification difference between the two. What spec sheets don't tell me is build quality and use ability, but while I can find plenty of feedback on the Sieg, the Amadeal lathe is more of an unknown.

I went through the same uncertainty and eventually decided dithering was a waste of time. I got on with it, and ordered one from Warco who have a reasonable reputation. Later I discovered Arc Euro have the best reputation, but complaints about Amadeal seem rare.

The lathes are all made to a similar design, varying on things like motor power, brushless vs brushed, and accessories. They can be made by anyone with a suitable factory, not all wonderful, so beware buying cheap from unknown sources. I suspect factory rejects and returns become internet 'bargains' too. The UK suppliers are more careful about their sources, and in the event a dud gets to a customer, they'll sort it out, maybe with a refund.

Not sure they're still doing it, but Axminster offered an extended warranty – at a price. Bottom line, there's hassle if the purchase goes wrong, but nowhere near as painful as discovering you have to pay to return a faulty machine to a fulfilment centre in Germany! Or the supplier has disappeared, or only communicates in Mandarin!

In terms of capability, the machines share much the same virtues and vices. They mostly spin too fast to thread under power, which is fixed by making a hand-crank. The gear change banjo is fiddly compared with bigger machines. They're a bit too big and clunky to be good at fine work like clock-making, and a bit too small for larger general purpose work. On the plus side, they're light enough for a fit man to move on his own, are delightfully quiet, and provide all the main lathe functions. I learned a lot from mine!

Dave

All mini-lathes have much the same limitations: I'd rather have one with a brushless motor

[HowiParticipant @howi]

Having an Amadeal lathe and an ArcEuro SX2P mini mill(a package deal at the time) I can safely say that I would buy again from EITHER.

Both items have been reliable in opoeration and did not need any fettling before use.

Both have had a number of mods over the years.

The lathe came with a number of extras and a good toolkit in a plastic toolbox.

I have also purchased a rotary table from Amadeal as theirs seemed to be the best quality/price tradeoff for what I wanted as I intended to put a stepper motor on it.

I have also put an electronic lead screw on the lathe, it is only a simple afair not like the higher end offerings that can do multi thread pitches.

The main advantage is that I can get rid of the banjo with the change gears which makes the lathe almost silent in opoeration, I can get feed rates down to 0.02mm up to whatever I like depending on roughing out or finishing.

The above is just to highlight whatever you may purchase you WILL end up modifying/.adding to as you go along.

Final comment, while not essential, a quick change toolpost is a nice usefull adition.

Whichever company you choose, I doubt you would go wrong with either, YOU just have to make your choice

Edited By Howi on 04/12/2022 10:28:11

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Alan,

Being new to lathes there is more chance of you making a mistake and over working yours.

Just be aware that some mini lathes have better overload protection. The cheaper ones just let the smoke out from the control board.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

One piece of advice that I was given to safeguard the control board was to provide the mains feed via surge protected lead.

The operator manual for my C3 instructs always to set the speed control to zero before starting or stopping; presumably to prevent excess current draw on start up.

The mini lathes on offer probably come from different factories, (Seig, Real Bull and Weiss are some, so detailed specs vary, as will the package on offer from the individual importer ).

Howard

[Tom SheppardParticipant @tomsheppard60052]

I bought an Amadeal Brushless lathe about eighteen months ago. It arrived well calibrated and has been completely reliable. I would nave no qualms about buying from them again.

[samuel heywoodParticipant @samuelheywood23031]

Alan,The best time to buy a mini lathe or other machine tool is today,

Umm & ahh too long & the price will go up. I speak from bitter experience.

Choose one, if it turns out not quite right for you, seems with used prices you won't have lost too much if you need to sell later.

[Neil AParticipant @neila]

I can fully agree with Samuel, don't dither about your choice too long, spend your time making parts not worrying about the different specifications of machine. Someone once said that any lathe is better than no lathe, I can't remember who said it now, but it's good advice.

I spent pretty much the whole of Covid lockdown dithering over getting another lathe, I ended up getting an Amadeal AMABL180 earlier this year, and choose what extras I wanted. I am happy with it, it does what I want. But I will say that I was not without a lathe during my faffing around, I had a small Flexispeed sitting under the bench to carry me through the period without a larger machine.

I also have a Seig SX2P from ArcEuro and I have found both companies easy to deal with.

The companies we buy from do not make the machines themselves, we rely on them to provide backup for the products they sell and they in their turn rely on their suppliers to provide a good quality product.

At the end of the day you have to choose a machine that does what you are expecting to make, that fits in the space you have available and suits the price you want to pay. Don't forget the extra tooling you will eventually need, you don't have to get it all at the same time, just buy as required otherwise you will end up with things that you will never use.

You will find that you will probably have to make some compromises over the specification of what you would like, but choose the features that you consider most important, we have all had that problem at some time. Good luck with your choice.

Neil

[File HandleParticipant @filehandle]

Probably a piece of string question, but how long should you expect a Chinese lathe / mill to last. This thought occurred after seeing a post on replacing a mill bearing that sounded like it wasn't going to be chap / straightforward.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Keith Wyles on 06/12/2022 17:31:49:

Probably a piece of string question, but how long should you expect a Chinese lathe / mill to last. This thought occurred after seeing a post on replacing a mill bearing that sounded like it wasn't going to be chap / straightforward.

Most mini-lathes and mini-mills are fitted with ball raced bearings. Depending on use/increased precision requirements by the user, they may wish to change such bearings to angular contact or taper roller bearings… as was the case in the mill thread you were referring to. There are mini-lathes which ARC has supplied over 20 years ago, which are still in use. Similarly so have Warco, Chester, Clarke-machine mart mini-lathes which are much older.

Ketan at ARC

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Yes my Sieg X3 will be 16yrs old in a month, the Warco lathe is a couple of years younger and both have done a lot of work, but if abused they may not fare so well.

[Alan ShepherdParticipant @alanshepherd38544]

Thanks Tom

Posted by Tom Sheppard on 04/12/2022 13:57:52:

I bought an Amadeal Brushless lathe about eighteen months ago. It arrived well calibrated and has been completely reliable. I would nave no qualms about buying from them again.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, I've had my Chester Cobra mini mill for just over 10 years, it was one they had on display at the Midlands exhibition at a discount price. it has only had to have a new gear wheel for the motor a few years ago, because the keyway gave up, probably because I gave it a bit of hard work for a short while, but it's still working fine. I've had my Chester Conquest mini lathe for 7 years and that hasn't had any problems, and that is still working fine also.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 06/12/2022 19:58:55

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Admittedly, it is a larger machine, but my Engineers ToolRoom BL12-24 (Warco BH600 / Chester Craftsman clone, among many others ) was commissioned at the end of September 2003. Having sorted noisy gears, the only problems have been those of my own making.. So, as you may guess, am well satisfied.

Also have a Chester Conquest, mini lathe (Sieg S3 lookalike ) and although it sees little work compared to the BL12-24, it has acquired a few extras (Inspired by the designs of Alistair Sinclair and Mike Cox )

Again, it has caused me no heartache.

Any advice sought from Arc EuroTrade has been willing given..

Howard

[File HandleParticipant @filehandle]

Posted by Ketan Swali on 06/12/2022 18:07:53:

Posted by Keith Wyles on 06/12/2022 17:31:49:

Probably a piece of string question, but how long should you expect a Chinese lathe / mill to last. This thought occurred after seeing a post on replacing a mill bearing that sounded like it wasn't going to be chap / straightforward.

Most mini-lathes and mini-mills are fitted with ball raced bearings. Depending on use/increased precision requirements by the user, they may wish to change such bearings to angular contact or taper roller bearings… as was the case in the mill thread you were referring to. There are mini-lathes which ARC has supplied over 20 years ago, which are still in use. Similarly so have Warco, Chester, Clarke-machine mart mini-lathes which are much older.

Ketan at ARC

Thanks Ketan it makes more sense now.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Posted by Alan Shepherd on 03/12/2022 12:30:43:

Hello folks,

I've been reading up on various posts about mini lathes, and almost clicked "pay now" on a Sieg SC3 from Arc.

Someone on here suggested also suggested looking at Amadeal, who currently have a good looking package deal on an AMA714B (sadly Arc only do packages on the SC2)

Has anyone on here had much experience with the AMA714B or with Armadeal generally,?

Yours baffled,

Alan

I think the starter set can be purchased from ARC for the SC3 and when added to the lathe price the overall cost is similar to the Amadeal lathe price.

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