X2 Mill Belt Conversions

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Having experienced the explosion of the smaller internal gear pair on my X2 mill, I'm having the obligatory thoughts about changing to belt drive.

I know that different approaches have been tried, but suitable belts are hard to source. I have wondered about hoover belts – they always used to last ages and ran on teeny-weeny pulleys, great for low ratios but the tension was very high IIRC..

I have here a small toothed belt spare for a mini lathe, this will happily fit a ~1" pulley and with a ~3 1/2" pulley would give about the 'standard' 0-1100 rpm low speed range (the only one I use). I have some sutable materials in the scrap box – but won't be able to cut the larger pulley on my lathe so a temporary replacement nylon gear will be needed anyway!

Has anyone got any experience of converting an X2 mill to belt drive or making toothed pulleys to fit a belt? Are tehre any other good ideas out there?

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Advice and ideas sought.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I have NO experience of the X2 Mill but, for what it's worth:

I would look very seriously at PolyVee belts. They handle amazing torque, and wide ratios … they absorb very little power and can run fast.

What more do you need?

Oh yes! … The pulleys are a doddle to make.

MichaelG.

 

Lots of info here

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 16/09/2012 21:46:45

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Just found this thread, about an X2 conversion.

MichaelG.

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

As Michael says, PolyVee are the way to go. I modified the drive of an X1 size mill using one.

They are available in a wide range of lengths and the width (number of ribs/grooves) can be what ever you want. Two stockists I have bought belting from just cut a band to the width I wanted from a (relatively) long 'sleeve' of the stuff. One belt I currently use is only 3 ribs wide and runs round a pulley about 20mm diameter withou any problems.

The belting is worth considering as a replacement for a flat belt, Some machines, high speed toolpost griders for example, run much smoother with a flat belt drive but replacement belts are often hard to obtain, The backside of Polyvee works just as well.

Ian

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Hi,

Just to remind you that steel replacement gears are available from Arc Euro Trade (usual disclaimer). Look under C3 lathe spares I think it is as the gears for this machine are identical. These gears also fit the Warco MiniMill and presumably the Amadeal equivalent.

Og course, there is still the noise factor, but if noise is not important, this may be a cheaper way to go. (I use ear protectors!)

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw.

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Thanks for the advice folks. Sounds like poly-v is the way to go, but the only one I have got is about 1.5m circumference!

A quick look suggests a PJ belt with 2.34mm pitch will work down to a 20mm pulley, but I'm struggling to find short ones. Any suggestions for a supplier?

Neil

(Peter – the shrieking when I first used my mill nearly sacred the life out of me, but it went after ten minutes use. I dread that metal gears would bring it back permanently, my ears are damaged enough by loud gigs in the past)

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Neil,

I have not used them as a supplier, but Beeline looks promising.

and these guys list price per rib.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 17/09/2012 20:38:48

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Would you believe it ? I've found a poly-v belt just the right length, but the spacing is 2 mm and it only has three Vs so I think it won't be strong enough

It's a megadyne belt which comes up as a washing machine or air conditioner fan belt.

I've found it in the megadyne catalogue – it's TB2 profile, which seems to be rare as hen's teeth, if I thought I could get one I'd try out this one.

Bearing supplies do price by rib, but their MOQ is a whole sleeve. 220 ribs at 43p each is abit steep

This seems a realistic solution for the PJ profile:

**LINK**

A 15/16 rib belt could be split into three or four.

More think & payday required

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Theres a 190 belts on Espares listings for cleaners, but I dont know if you can identify which would be suitable ?

Clive

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Some portable belt sanders use poly-v belts, proberbly other similar tools too, that gives some idea of the belt and the power it will transmit. You might get an idea of the section of belt if you can find one of the Myford lathes with the conversion done, or one of the big bore ones, but I think 3, or 4 Vs OK.

Ian S C

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Neil,

This might be useful as a "benchmark" for power handling:

I recently bought [secondhand] a cheap'n'cheerful woodturning lathe

Record DML/24 … with 3-step Poly-Vee drive

This has a 1425rpm induction motor [1/3 HP, I think] and a top speed of about 2000rpm.

… the drive belt has only four ribs, and is marked 180 J4

Seems perfectly adequate for the job.

MichaelG.

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Does sound about right, that should be 3/8" wide. I think I will use 5 ribs as my 'blank' for apulley is just about 1/2" wide.

I have been given some interesting information about mill gears and bearings… more later, perhaps!

Regards

Neil

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Never seen it, but I believe that the Myford conversion allows enough room for an extra speed. Also on a mill/drill convesion to poly- V belts allowed an extra pully, I'll have a look and see if I can find that one in ME some years back. Ian S C

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Found the bit in ME: "Poly V Belt Drives" G. F. Deane discusses Poly V drives in various applications- and gives details of how he modified his mill / drill.

(1) Vol 165 no 3883 (4) Vol 166 no3889

(2) Vol 165 no 3885 (5) Vol 166 no 3891

(3) Vol 165 no 3887 (6) Vol 166 no 3893

Thers quite a bit of interesting reading in this series. Ian S C

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Most of the belt conversions I've seen on the web use round plastic belting.

Meadows and Passemore sell it for use on watchmakers lathes. You buy it my the metre and join the ends to make the length you need by welding with a hot knife.

Can't vouch for it though as my X2 came with a timing belt drive.

Russell.

[Keith Wardill 1Participant @keithwardill1]

**LINK**

My mill belt drive mod – took about two hours work and cost about 20 pounds for the belt and pulleys, which give a ratio close to the original gear drive. Been working fine for 5 years now.

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Hi Wotsit,

That is about the approach I was looking at, but i must say I think I'm convinced by poly-v belts as I think the possibility of a bit of slip is a good thing and I don't need the mill to make the pulleys.

Thanks Ian – I think I have those issues, was it someone adding extra pulleys to a VMC?

Neil

[Keith Wardill 1Participant @keithwardill1]

Is slip a good thing? IMO a 'liitle slip' eventually becomes a big slip, worn belt, pulleys, etc. I know these toothed belts don't stretch (according to all the 'experts', but I have jammed my mill several (=many) times, (who hasn't?) and the toothed belt seems to take it all in its stride (I use my own electronics  which doesn't burn out, it just fold-back current limits on excessive load to save the motor) – however, yer pays yer money and takes yer choice.

 

Edited By wotsit on 19/09/2012 21:41:53

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Neil, yes he did put extra pullies on the mill, and a lot of info on making the pullies. The only pullies iv made were for a large ride on lawn mower.

I can vouch for heat fused round belts, I use 3 mm green belting for driving things off my hot air engines, and 5 mm for driving my Super Adept lathe. I used to use some white coloured heat fuse belt, but it tended to age, then break. Ian S C

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I've ordered an 8-rib J-section belt, which I shall split into two. I have already turned a blank for the big pulley in aluminium but will use steel for the small one. I shall also be trying out another little mod, of which more anon.

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Stub Mandrel on 27/09/2012 21:42:58:

I shall also be trying out another little mod, of which more anon.

Neil

Intrigued !!

MichaelG.

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Belt drive passed a test yesterday, using a 330mm circumference 4-rib J-section belt. Seems to work a treat.

The 'Stepperhead' drawings were really handy for making the pulleys, 40-degree cutter, 2.5mm depth, 2.34mm centres.

I want to add a spindle lock and a tensioning adjustment before I fully reassemble.

Neil

[PekkaNFParticipant @pekkanf]

Posted by Stub Mandrel on 04/10/2012 21:39:24:

….The 'Stepperhead' drawings were really handy for making the pulleys, 40-degree cutter, 2.5mm depth, 2.34mm centres…..Neil

I was eyeballing the same info on the mag. But I was wondering how to cut such groves?
Maybe to make a HSS tool with 40decree bit form tool – like a threading tool? Or more acute angle tool and use compound to shave both flanks?

If you have any info/picture on making these ribbed belt wheels I would greatly appreciate.

Pekka

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Pekka,

When I made some of these pulleys, I just ground the single groove profile onto a parting-tool blade.

Straight plunge cuts [into good quality hard aluminium alloy] worked fine.

… That's one of the beauties of PolyVee; the grooves are not deep.

MichaelG.

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