Wrought iron

[Steve PaveyParticipant @stevepavey65865]

I got hold of an old rusty keel bolt a few weeks ago, clearly wrought iron and badly corroded as well as bent like a banana. I salvaged two lengths, about 300 and 500 mm, cleaned them up with a hammer (!) and then roughed them down on the lathe. I reckon they can both be finished turned to give me about 25mm diameter. But what can I use this material for? Is it any good for model engineering work (stationary engine parts for example). I was thinking I could make some nice machinists jacks from it but I don't want to waste it if there are any better uses it can be put to.

[Steve PaveyParticipant @stevepavey65865]

[RainbowsParticipant @rainbows]

I hear it forges great but machines not so good. Try find a blacksmith and see if ou can swap it for something that machines better.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Mr Beaverbrook had all the wrought iron railings chopped down in Edinburgh to help with the war effort during WW2 (Apart from clerical and basement railings)

A little old lady who got the train through the Carstairs junction in Scotland on a regular basis said these chopped up railings sat in a huge heap until after the war ended and in 1946 this heap of wrought iron disappeared

They couldn't even find a use for it in WW2

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

I think the problem is that it is of varying quality, and if you melt it down you have a metal soup of unknown ingredients, so it is only useful if it is used for more decorative metalwork.

If you want decent metal, you must know exactly what your quantities and ingredients are, just like good soup

[Andy HoldawayParticipant @andyholdaway]

It's alleged that the wartime scrap metal collection was more about getting civilians involved in the war effort than for the value the metal provided. Aluminium pots and pans took more processing to yield useable alloy than refining fresh from bauxite.

It's also said that the mountain of railings from Edinburgh, London (and according to my mother) most of Birmingham ended up being dumped in the sea after the war as wrought iron wasn't required.

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

I find wrought iron difficult to work, the stuff made for machinery use rather than structural seems better. I've just tried cutting up an old cart axle ,seems like wrought, the two ends are turned for the bearings and seem a bit different. Note -"seems" – cutting with angle grinder and quite hard work. Genuine w iron is not made now and scrap can be worth something.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Gordon, your cart axle probably has steel ends forge welded on the ends.

Steve, if you can find a blacksmith, or ornamental iron worker, they may be interested.

Ian S C

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Gordon W on 30/12/2015 10:00:45:

… Genuine w iron is not made now …

.

Gordon,

May I please refer you back to this thread ?

MichaelG.

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Ian ,you may be right but no obvious signs of welding, looks more like it's been forged down and then finished to size, about 11/2" dia. MichaelG- I read the thread at the time and contributed to it. I know the co. and years ago got some short ends from them. But as far as Know it is all re-worked existing iron and non is actually made, ie. from ore. I will be glad if I'm wrong tho'.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

They still do demonstrations of puddling and make small quantities at the Ironbridge Museum, as far as I know.

They took all the railings from Barry and Cardiff as well. Lots of lead-filled stubs still to be found on front garden walls.

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Gordon W on 30/12/2015 11:05:04:

MichaelG- I read the thread at the time and contributed to it. I know the co. and years ago got some short ends from them. But as far as Know it is all re-worked existing iron and non is actually made, ie. from ore. I will be glad if I'm wrong tho'.

.

Gordon,

Sorry to labour this … especially as you have first-hand experience of the company.

Given that they have this page, discussing their work with 'Trading Standards' … One might reasonably assume that the product is properly identifiable as 'Wrought Iron' even if it contains recycled material.

If you can educate me further on the matter [either here, or by PM], I would be grateful.

They seem to be saying all the right things … but you have sown the seeds of doubt

MichaelG.

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

Wrought iron (the old tough grainy kind) is great for forging agricultural or gardening tools, or tongs/pliers and other hand tools for the workshop, or fireplace tools. Brackets and fence/gate parts too. Very valuable for those sorts of jobs. Not very nice to machine for model parts, though. JD

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

Hi Steve

If the iron was in Melbourne OZ I would be over in a flash wanting to trade it for something.

Perfect for repairing antique metal fittings, It is a different colour to modern mild steel particularly after a light etch and rust to bring back the nice grainy striated pattern and texture.

Regards
John

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

For anyone interested, there is an excellent explanation of how wrought iron was made in the puddlers hearth in the Tubal cain book, "Hardening, tempering and heat treatment" As the Real Wrought iron Company say, it is simply cast iron, with as much as possible of the carbon and slag removed by reacting the molten iron with oxide in the hearth, then repeated heating and power hammering, cutting, binding, reheating and repeat! Apart from its resistance to corrosion, it has no advantages over modern materials and because of the veins of slag running through it, it will be difficult to machine. neither will it hold an edge.as it is mainly pure iron.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Unlike cast iron, wrought iron has very little carbon, and can be as much as 99.9% pure iron, but it will have slag inclusions in it. Rather than melting when heated it goes pasty, and can then be forge welded. Bolts made of it are forged, and the threads rolled, if you cut the thread you are likely to hit a bit of slag, and a bit of the thread might even fall off. If you cut a bit off the end with a hacksaw, or turn a bit of the outer skin you will find dark lines of slag.

I remember one of our metalwork teachers saying that chains, and hooks used to be made of WI, and if they were over loaded the metal would crack on the surface first and stop(hopefully), allowing the load to be removed before it broke.

One thing about WI, it resists rust much better than any grade of carbon steel. that's why it's so good for ornamental work that's going to sit outside for years.

Ian S C

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

There are different types of wrought iron and different qualities. Most stuff you find, particularly old railings, is probably puddled iron.

Some wrought can forge nicely, other examples will fall apart – cracking along seams. As an engineering material, mild steel probably has it beat for just about everything, except maybe corrosion resistance?

As an artistic material, it holds its place very well. I pick up rusty bits when I find it.

Here are some small hammers made with wrought I got from a rotten ship (the faces are 52100 and have been forge welded on). The pattern is revealed by etching in ferric chloride:

The end grain on that right hand hammer is spectacular. However, it doesn't always work out so well. I just spent a day making tiny draw pulls in wrought iron hoping they would look cool after and etch. This is all I got,

 

Here are a couple of bits I squashed last week at orange heat. You proabably want it screaming hot before forging this stuff. The big one is off the ship, the small one is a railing I found while walking the dog.

 

This was going to be my coolest axe ever. A wrought iron (railing) wrap with a carbon steel edge. So close, but it fell apart in the heat treat

Edited By jaCK Hobson on 01/01/2016 15:11:37

Edited By jaCK Hobson on 01/01/2016 15:21:22

Edited By jaCK Hobson on 01/01/2016 15:26:11

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

love the hammers!

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

My blacksmithing tutor back in the seventies reckoned you could identify wrought iron by the smell – because it's all so old. It was originally available in different grades depending how many times it had been worked (or wrought) to force the slag inclusions out. He told me (and I've never checked to see if it is true) that Wrightons (spelling?) had three grades: best, best-best, and best-best-best.

I have a beautiful engineer's level made by my grandfather in the early twentieth century, and the slag inclusions in the steel are quite plain to see.

George

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

For forge welding WI you are looking at white heat, use sand as a flux.

Most edge tools(axes, chisels, etc) were made by welding steel to the main WI body of the tool, steel was very expensive, and treated the way that tungsten carbide, ceramic, and diamond tools are now.

The reason there is slag in the metal is that the pure iron does not melt like steel/cast iron, with the carbon in these metals they are fluid and the slag floats to the top, WI goes pasty, like hot toffee, only some of the slag can be got out.

Ian S C

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

The axe pic was private. It should have looked like this. Sorry.

[Steve PaveyParticipant @stevepavey65865]

A photo showing the shorter of the two pieces I machined, and the remaining offcut which is probably a bit too far gone. The hammer heads look superb Jack. Is there anything else I can use to etch it with? I have a can of mortar cleaner in the shed, would that work?

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Lovely forge-work Jack.

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

Posted by Steve Pavey on 02/01/2016 20:47:24:

. The hammer heads look superb Jack. Is there anything else I can use to etch it with?

Ferric chloride is used to etch circuit boards and you can get it from Maplins. That is the accepted 'best' for etching patterns in metal.

You want a weak acid I think. Vinegar will do something. Lemon juice will reveal the pattern but may not etch deeply enough to preserve it for long. Some people claim coffee works.

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