Workshop Clock

[Iain DownsParticipant @iaindowns78295]

Hi, All.

In my workshop I have a clock which tells me when I should go in and make the tea.

Sadly, it and it's predecessors just don't want to keep up with the modern world – which is to say that fairly shortly after a new battery is installed (say 2 – 3 months) it starts to slow down.

This seems to happen consistently – I'm on my 3rd clock now and have run through many batteries.

Clocks INSIDE the house seem to have no such trouble keeping up and the batteries last ages..

Not all clocks are the same, but all are bought on a lowest price basis from Amazon and I expect share pretty much the same mechanism.

For a while I thought this was mainly a cold weather phenomenon, but I'm having the same trouble in the current warmness.

Any ideas how I can (cheaply) find a reliable way of telling the time in the shed?

Thanks

Iain

[Iain DownsParticipant @iaindowns78295]

doesn’t seem to like the workshop

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Surely it is just a simple fact of life that Time flows at a different rate in the shed

MichaelG.

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

You could buy an old but working wind up clock, my battery clock does the same, I think its the cool conditions in the garage, house temperatures are fairly constant and warm but my garage temperatures fluctuate up and down even during the summer.

Martin P

[NealebParticipant @nealeb]

Cheap bedside clock/radio from a car boot sale? Mains-driven so unless the workshop mains frequency is also subject to your local time warp, that should stay accurate! Not a lot of good if you turn off all power to the workshop when not in use, though…

[Ches Green UKParticipant @chesgreenuk]

I find that a Duracell AA lasts longest in my workshop.

Costco's Kirkland batteries don't seem to last quite as long, but they are cheaper.

I think I read somewhere that the Kirkland batteries are made in the same factory as the Duracells, but one or two Duracells see out 12 months, whereas Kirklands seem to be used up at the rate of two or three per 12 months.

I'm just going by vague memory on this.

Ches

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

A "radio controlled" clock would self correct daily including correcting for summer time and GMT changing (unless your workshop is a Faraday cage). Available in digital and analogue formats. I picked up a couple of low cost radio controlled alarm clocks from Lidl a few years back and the batteries last for many years.

Martin C

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

I have not used Duracell batteries for some time now because they are more likely to leak, causing damage to whatever they were being used for..

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

If the clock has AA size batteries, install larger batteries or rechargeable and a charger which turns on every time you go into the workshop.

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

I think Michael has it right, yet again !

It is well known that time flows at different rates, depending on where you are or what you are doing.

Example ;

School days were NEVER ENDING, while playtime passed in a flash.

Later on, worktime went on for ever, holidays were gone in a jiffy.

When I were a young lad [along time ago ], a year was never ending

Now in my "mature" years, it seems to disappear in about two months.

Some say this is due to the EEC, while others blame Brexit.

Who knows ? it,s one of the great mysteries of our time.

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

You might try one of the radio controlled clocks. I have an Acctim battery alarm, keeps perfect time and automatically updates to BST/GMT on the appropriate date. Links to the time signal from Germany.

John

[Ches Green UKParticipant @chesgreenuk]

This thread has reminded me I also have a solar powered atomic clock in the workshop – it has been there at least two years and I don't recall ever having changed the battery……

It was available here – HITO Atomic Radio Controlled Travel Alarm Clock – https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00XPB49JO/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Ches

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

A few clues. The clocks are:

• Bought for cheapness (mechanical issues)
• In a workshop
• Exposed to temperature cycles (hot, cold, and condensation)
• and, they fail by slowing down

Unknown:

• Battery type and make
• Battery voltage at fail
• Display type – hands, LCD, LED or other

Are the batteries the correct type, not too cheap or fakes, and in date? Could Iain's batteries all be from the same ancient package, perhaps stored badly in his workshop?

The ideal battery is an old-fashioned 1.5V Leclanche because their chemistry favours intermittent low power operation like clocks and doorbells. Hard to find these days because most battery powered devices need more power, usually in applications where batteries aren't expected to last for years. Ubiquitous when I was a boy and they always leaked!

Some modern types are prone to self-discharge, especially rechargeables. Too cheap batteries usually contain fewer active chemicals and/or the chemicals are a little impure. As a result they don't last well. The 'free' battery that comes with a new item is often weedy, maybe to keep costs down, or because its chemistry has been optimised for long storage rather than energy content.

As clocks and doorbells are a tiny proportion of the battery market, we're more or less forced to buy unsuitable batteries for them. Dangerous to generalise, but for clocks I avoid 1.2V types and go-faster variants. For example, Duracell sell Optimum, Plus, and Simple ranges, where Plus and Optimum deliver 100% and 200% more energy than Simple, making them suitable for power hungry motors etc. Clocks do not need more energy, so there's a reasonable chance 'Simple' is a better choice, not only cheaper, but potentially longer running.

Two ways of thinking about workshop clocks. One is to buy cheap because the unfriendly environment is likely to kill them, so treat the clock as a consumable. The other is to buy a well made clock in hope it's innards will be better protected against condensation, swarf and conductive dust.

My suggestion is to protect the clock or a bought movement with by enclosing it in a home-made box (wood and Acyrlic), and to power it with a bigger battery, a C or D rather than an AA. I'd solder the battery directly to the clock with a flying lead, but holders are available:

Maybe insulate the battery as well by wrapping it in some towelling or a polystyrene box.

I wear a wrist-watch!

Dave

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

I have a large vintage wind up wall clock thus avoiding the need for batteries. Being an elderly (like me!) it runs a little slow. Also, its nice chime has been gradually replaced with a strangled mechanical groan – sound familiar?

Rik

[John Doe 2Participant @johndoe2]

Posted by Iain Downs on 05/07/2023 07:22:25:

Hi, All.

Not all clocks are the same, but all are bought on a lowest price basis from Amazon and I expect share pretty much the same mechanism.

Any ideas how I can (cheaply) find a reliable way of telling the time in the shed?

Thanks

Iain

"Lowest price basis" might be your problem here? Does the cheapest tool available work as well as a more expensive one ?

These 'cheap' clocks might work OK given a reasonably stable environment, e.g. your lounge, but might struggle if, say, the temperature and humidity vary significantly. Any cheap lubricating substances in cheap clock bearings might not work reliably outside a certain temperature range?

Moisture on the mechanism from condensation could potentially, (sorry ! ), form an electrical path and discharge the battery prematurely.

Presumably you have mains power in your shed, ? if it was me I would invest in a clock radio – even a second -hand one. You can get them with battery back-ups and/or radio control, which would keep the correct time, and 'survive' power cuts.

OR, I have a small battery powered electronic TFA Dostmann LCD weather station, which tells me the internal and outside air temperature and humidity, and which also has a radio controlled time and date readout. This would give the time, and also display the humidity in your workshop, which is useful to know.

[Peter Cook 6Participant @petercook6]

Have you tried moving the clock to a different position in the workshop?

Quartz clocks with analogue hands have two bits. The quartz controlled oscillator that generates 1 second pulses, and an electromagnetic stepper that drives the hands.

Can you identify if the problem is the quartz oscillator running slow when the battery goes down, or whether the hands are missing steps when the step pulse gets weak.

Most quartz clocks stop when the battery gets two weak to drive the stepper – but that is usually an all or nothing fail. If the clock is subject to a significant magnetic field from a machine or power wiring being close by, then a fresh battery may have enough grunt to still drive the steps, but once the battery gets low the stepper may start to miss pulses.

PS a quartz clock with an LCD display  may be more reliable.

Edited By Peter Cook 6 on 05/07/2023 15:32:11

[roy entwistleParticipant @royentwistle24699]

Good excuse for making a mechanical one

Roy

[john halfpennyParticipant @johnhalfpenny52803]

Try to get an old Smiths electric (240v). Mine ( a wedding present!) is over 45 years old – never missed a beat, nor has it lost or gained any time. It must be very over-engineered.

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

I tried a radio-controlled clock in my workshop, and found it to be very temperamental. It had a metal case and a metal dial, so the only possible way for the signal to get in was round the back, which was against a brick wall. I'm surprised that it worked at all, and it often didn't. I gave up in the end and now use a very reliable quartz crystal clock, bought for £1 from a charity shop.

George

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

the radio-controlled clocks have a directional antenna (a ferrite rod) – try a wall at 90deg to the one on which it fails – I have several such clocks both in IoM where they work on any wall and in SE England where they are distinctively directional

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

My parents had a Smith's mantelpiece clock on mains electric. If juice went off, it stopped and had to be manually restarted. Today's version is self starting but is 'slow' by the length of time juice is off. Progress? – hmff! I don't have a workshop clock – just look at my wristwatch.

John

[Anonymous]

Posted by Iain Downs on 05/07/2023 07:22:25:

Sadly, it and it's predecessors just don't want to keep up with the modern world – which is to say that fairly shortly after a new battery is installed (say 2 – 3 months) it starts to slow down.

This seems to happen consistently – I'm on my 3rd clock now and have run through many

 

If you want battery life you need to go digital (LCD), I've had one of these for some years and can't remember when I last put batteries in it. It updates by reference to an atomic clock although this particular one can't do that in Europe. Marathon sells in Europe though so I imagine they have a version that works there.

Easy on the eyes – 4'' display – and corrects for DST as appropriate. Also gives temperature and humidity which can be handy in the workshop. Didn't cost an arm or leg (or both) either.

Afterthought: if you don't like digital clocks there are, of course LCD "analogue" clocks which should also give long battery life.

 

Edited By Peter Greene 🇨🇦 on 05/07/2023 19:25:23

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Posted by john halfpenny on 05/07/2023 16:31:24:

Try to get an old Smiths electric (240v). Mine ( a wedding present!) is over 45 years old – never missed a beat, nor has it lost or gained any time. It must be very over-engineered.

Hi John, doubt it is over engineered, the old mains clocks keep their time by the mains frequency, and a small difference or variation of voltage will make no difference to the time keeping. If you run it on 60Hz instead of 50Hz, it would run fast, but if it's a 60Hz one and you run it on 50Hz, it would run slow.

Regards Nick.

[Clive SteerParticipant @clivesteer55943]

As I reported earlier a workshop may not be a good place for sensitive electronics where periods of high humidity, combined with flux residue left on a PCB after manufacture may cause corrosion or leakage. My DRO readout head recently suffered from this but about 5 years ago a microprocessor based device, located in my garage, that is used by my solar panels failed. Close inspection revealed that the 32khz crystal, associated capacitors and tracking to the microprocessor showed signs of corrosion. Cleaning this off and varnishing the area has cured the issue.

Most digital clocks use CMOS integrated circuit and a 32khz crystal oscillator circuit where even microamps of leakage current will affect their operation and may reduce battery life.

What I have found is that the effect of acidic flux residue, humidity and the device power causes tin to migrate out of the solder to "plate" the PCB which is easy to see under a microscope. Once this happens only physical scrubbing can remove the plating and restore correct performance.

CS

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Forget the AA cell, wire it up to a D size and it will run for years.

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