Windows Update (Again)

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Gentlemen,

These posts give me cause to ask a simple question, I have used windows since I bought my first computer over forty years ago, I can honestly say I have never had an issues apart from replacing slow worn out computers and all new machines have had the latest software upgrades, on that note why do others have such issues as recorded here, I tinker but I'm no expert when it comes to computer functions so is it that I leave well alone and others fiddle that is the problem.

Martin P

Edited By martin perman on 17/03/2019 14:04:29

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by Chris Trice on 17/03/2019 11:46:01:

Without igniting the old debate (again), all I know is I was a loyal user of Windows and PC's since 1995 and they were regular sources of stress and frustration needing constant updates that frequently screwed existing programmes up along with painfully slow boot up times. I bit the bullet four years ago and bought a Mac Book Pro. What a difference! None of the grief I previously had to put up with. Never going back to Windows.

Where I used to work they were about 75% PC and 25% Mac. Of over 250 staff I was the only one who had both a Mac and a PC on my desk, used every day. Many staff knew this and naturally asked me about Macs. My advice was not to even look at one unless you could afford to buy one. Those that did buy a Mac always came back and said two things to me, “everything just works on a Mac” and “I am never, ever going back to windows!”

I’ve spoken to many IT professionals over the years and the honest ones who have actually used a Mac for even a little while have admitted that Macs provide a much nicer user experience and require less support than windows machines. Many also say that this is because Apple have an “unfair advantage” in that they supply the Hardware And the software. Microsoft will always have problems because they only supply the software.

Many other IT folk make up stories though because they’re worried about their jobs, they don’t need to worry about Apple though because not everyone can afford one. Perhaps they really need to worry about Android though because lots of people are getting fed up with Microsoft.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

If enjoy a regular supply of criticism of all the main OSs, just get The Register in your news feed. Stick with it for a month and you won't feel that any of them are better than the others.

I can say, though, that when there are compatibility issues sending PC to Mac and vice versa (my student daughter has a Macbook and others who work on MEW have Macs) it's usually easier to troubleshoot them on the PC.

Neil

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Having used both Microsoft and Apple systems, the Apple wins hands down, continual problems with Microsoft operating system caused me to bite the bullet and dig deep in the finances and buy an IMac, eight years ago, I would never entertain a computer with a Microsoft operating system again, as I expect would all IMac converts.

Dave W

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Spent today having fun with Windows 10 and can report a mixture of good and bad.

My computer is dual-boot Windows 10 and Ubuntu, both on the same SSD. Used 90% of the time for Ubuntu, 10% Windows. The latter is available for compatibility reasons (rare) and because some software doesn't run on Linux – like Fusion360. I prefer Linux because it's far more secure, more reliable, has cleaner software installation/removal, simpler recovery, no DLL problems, and I like the open system ethos. Apple has similar advantages and a wider range of commercial software available than Linux, but it's a closed system and a bit pricey. Don't switch if you believe Windows is nature's only correct way of doing computing!

Anyway, last week, after an update, Windows refused to boot, and more alarmingly, although the GUI recovery options appeared, they all failed to fix the fault. Closer investigation revealed the error to be a corrupt DLL in the boot partition. This small slice of disk is roughly equivalent to the starter motor of a car engine – if it jams solid, you're not going anywhere soon.

As Ubuntu was operational, it was possible to check the entire disk for errors; none found, confirming I was dealing with a Windows fault.

Windows recovery provides a command-line interface to a set of basic tools including those necessary to repair a damaged boot partition and other awkward cases. Unfortunately, these tools didn't work either, and – because Microsoft disregards other operating systems, I ended up with a computer that couldn't boot anything!

Fortunately Linux is good at recovery – including the ability to read Windows files – and I was able to boot the system from a Ubuntu live image and use it to repair the damage done by the failed Windows recovery. Ubuntu working once again, I used it to download a Windows ISO. Copied in a particular way to a USB stick, a computer can boot from it, and – if necessary – reinstall Windows from scratch. Reinstalling is the option of last resort – it deletes all user loaded software, it resets stuff, there's a risk of losing data, and – because Microsoft assumes only it's allowed on any right thinking user's computer – there's a probability installing Windows might trash Ubuntu as well. (Unlike Linux which is nice to Microsoft and copes with both.)

This made a full-backup necessary. If necessary I could reinstall Windows, then Ubuntu, and then all the user programs and data. Worthy but dull.

Some time later, as nothing is ever easy, I discovered that Microsoft's tool used to create a Windows ISO has a bug. This isn't mentioned by Microsoft, and the error message is meaningless, ho hum. The internet saved me: the tool works if it's copied to, and run from, the USB stick.

Booting from the ISO provided the same recovery options as before, except the reinstall options were missing. I got a little depressed.

However, I unplugged all unnecessary devices and tried again. This time the Windows recovery program produced the hoped for 'Windows re-install, save user data' option, and it ran successfully without damaging Ubuntu. Hurrah! I was considerably pleased even though recovery involved 5 reboots, and another round of updates.

Now for the bad news: Windows fans pay attention. Although the reinstall had honoured some of my privacy settings, several others were ignored. That is, the reinstall had opened many doors that I want kept shut. By default Applications and Windows will share information. Also, Cortana was back. This tool is intrusive and I don't want it. (An anti-FUD view here.) Turns out to be even harder and less safe to disable in the latest Windows update. Killing it entirely may crash your computer. Windows is far more inclined to leak data silently than other operating systems, and it's down to you to stop it.

Should users be concerned about privacy? I think so. Previously computer companies made money by selling hardware, programs and operating systems. This revenue stream is drying up. The new way of making big money is by collecting, selling and exploiting information. Your information. Much of what it's used for is benign, like targetted advertising, but information is easily abused. I've no intention of making it easy to collect and dislike systems, websites and programs that accumulate it. Never forget he who sups with the devil should have a long spoon, or that naive people are attracted to liars…

Dave

 

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 18/03/2019 16:21:21

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

Dave – even this site collects your info – look at page source and see the farcebook tracker

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

I know – even though DuckDuckGo rates it "Green B+" privacy wise (ie mostly harmless), I'm blocking bits of it:

https://script.crazyegg.com/pages/scripts/0064/8007.js?431369
https://servedbyadbutler.com/adserve/;ID=154425;size=728×90;setID=162072;type=iframe
https://servedbyadbutler.com/app.js
https://connect.facebook.net/en_US/fbevents.js
https://connect.facebook.net/en_US/fbds.js
https://ssl.google-analytics.com/ga.js
https://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/js/adsbygoogle.js

Six calls to an Advert or Adverts from a source listed as suspect.

Trackers:

connect.facebook.net
ssl.google-analytics.com
http://www.google.com
pagead2.googlesyndication.com

Possible tracker: script.crazyegg.com

Legitimate advertisers needn't panic. I'm not blocking any of the adverts hosted by this site – they're useful.

Good point though – although Linux is safer than Windows at operating system level, you can't trust Applications either. Browsers, Email and Applications could be up to no good as well.

Dave

[Kiwi BlokeParticipant @kiwibloke62605]

Well folks, if you want to pay through the nose to be an enslaved drone in the Microsoft or Apple hive, go ahead, but if you want to be in control of your computer, enjoy reliability and better security, go for Linux or BSD and spend the money you'll save on beer.

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

I first came across Mac's some 35-40 years ago. First thought was that the screen was too small and the second thought was that it was preventing me from doing what I wanted compared to the CP/M system I was also using. Since I have a deep rooted objection to other people telling me what I can and cannot do with equipment I have bought, then that was it as far as I am concerned. (Incidently, I have the same views about DVD players that force the user to sit through all the manufacturer's dire warnings about copyright etc.)

Then I started using DOS based PC's and realised how much better than Mac's they were in that I could, and did go diving into the innards, and in fact that ability to be able to do just that enabled me to recover data from a disc that had accidently had the directories trashed. Eventually I moved onto Windows only to discover that the early Windows was just a slightly better presented version of an earlier non-Microsoft program. And we all know, don't we, all about how Bill Gates had to buy in his first DOS OS.

Through the years I migrated through various versions of Windows until I ended up with XP. Now XP worked, and worked well for me. In fact, I think all the failures were due to me messing about with the internals.

And then they stopped supporting XP. By this time I already knew that some of my software was obsolete, yet satisfactory for me, but the XP replacement OS wouldn't run them – so-called legacy software. Plus some of my hardware wouldn't work either. I then made the decision to move onto Linux Mint.

Mint works well. I don't feel the need to go delving into its innards. And, despite everything, I have two non-Linux programs, a DOS based database and a Win 32 bit cad program, working satisfactorily without the need for dual booting, or virtual machines. And when I read about the problems some people are having with Windows, I become very thankful that I made the switch.

Peter G. Shaw

[VicParticipant @vic]

Our first computer was a DOS machine which had been replaced by a Mac where my wife worked. The difference between a green screen DOS machine and a Mac with a graphic user interface with a mouse was stark. It was like comparing a Model T Ford to an Aston Martin. Productivity and accuracy of work went through the roof when the company switched to Macs.

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

You are comparing an old/replaced system with a new/replacement system. If the new did not show advantages over the old, it would not have become the replacement. That is not an operating system choice, it's development over time.

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Switched the laptop on this morning and after a few minutes noticed a lag when giving any command both with the mouse and keyboard, it didn't take me long to realise Windows was downloading some updates as when this happens always the same effect on the machine.

Left the machine for an hour to download and when returning the red spot was showing in the bottom menu bar indicating Windows had updates waiting to install, switched to Update and Restart and left it,

3 hours later it's still not finished, total time taken was 3hrs 20 mins, is this the norm or is it my computer needs upgrading ?

Emgee

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

My Huawei Matebook downloaded the update during the day or last night, after reading this thread I told it to restart, was back running within 5 minutes.

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

This is the update mentioned in my post above.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Emgee. Your processor is rather old. My slightly less old Core I5 laptop did the update in about 5 mins. I think they are up to I8 or more by now. My main pc is core I7 quad core. I think or octacore that goes like a rocket. Unfortunataly the rocket has taken it to the repairers. Blooming SSD drive died. Doh. £140 out of pocket coming up. My problem was I had the windows 10 on the dedicated SSD so i got instant boot.

Steve.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Emgee, my Pavilion laptop has an Intel(R) Core (TM) i5-4200 CPU @ 2.5GHz 2.5GHz, bit only 8.00 GB installed RAM and 64-bit operating system 64-bit based processor. It updates automatically, but will restart and installs outside active hours, which is in the wee hours, but I do get a notification and can open that and click on restart now, which I did last evening and it took about half an hour to install and reconfigure. I don't know how long the updates take, as I only know it has when the notification shows in the task bar.

Regards Nick.

P.S. I guess your internet speed may make a difference as to how long it takes, mine is 72/72.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 15/12/2022 07:54:18

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Emgee on 14/12/2022 21:18:08:

Switched the laptop on this morning and after a few minutes noticed a lag when giving any command both with the mouse and keyboard, … Windows was downloading some updates …

Left the machine for an hour to download and when returning the red spot was showing in the bottom menu bar indicating Windows had updates waiting to install, switched to Update and Restart and left it,

3 hours later it's still not finished, total time taken was 3hrs 20 mins, is this the norm or is it my computer needs upgrading ?

Emgee

This does seem a long time, but it may be within the normal range. I don't think the machine is weedy, but make sure the disc isn't too full. Anything above 80% full is increasingly likely to cause trouble.

Much depends on the size and type of upgrade, and a large number of other people trying to download it at the same time will cause network delays. Maybe your interconnection is slow too? The size of a Window update varies between tiny and massive, as does the amount of work the computer has to do to install and tidy up. If the disc is full, extra work is done because the install tries, and might fail, to work in the limited space available.

Virus checkers can cause delays too, as can the index built by Microsoft to speed searches.

CPU usage is worth checking. Type ctrl-alt-delete and open the task manager. Look for a process consuming 100% of the CPU. In particular there's an ongoing problem with svchost.exe, which service sometimes has a nervous breakdown during updates, goes into a loop and eats all the processor time, disc space and memory it can get, causing severe queuing. (Like a caravan happily hogging an open road, oblivious to the 500 vehicles stuck behind!) The cure is to stop the service. After the update, rebooting the computer restarts the service and normal operation is resumed.

Dave

[Mike HurleyParticipant @mikehurley60381]

I would comsider those sort of times fairly normal. Never had issues with W10 but since upgrading to W11 updates became a real pain even with my relatively good spec laptop.

To stop being unable to pretty well work at all when not convenient, I simply set 'pause updates' in settings and then about once a week go in and re-activate to check if any available, if so and if convenient, let them run, otherwise pause again and re-check in another week. Yes, its a bit of a pain to keep remembering but its become a habit now and has stopped all manner of aggravation and bad-language!

regards Mike

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Thanks for the comments so far, non SSD Disk size 918GB with 675GB free space.

Data from speedcheck this morning:

[Author]

Posts