Windows 10 – A Warning

[Steve WithnellParticipant @stevewithnell34426]

Last summer I set my Dad up (who is surprisingly, is quite a bit older than me…) with a new laptop running Windows 10. He already had a Sky Broadband connection with a 2GB usage limit, which kept it free as part of his Sky package.



He limits his usage to a few eMails per month, usually downloading PDF and Word docs from a couple of clubs and societies he belongs too.



Yesterday, I spotted an eMail from Sky saying he had exceeded his usage cap twice over the last six months – then a second saying he had been upgraded to an unlimited package at £10/month (+£2.50 if certain conditions applied and +5 if other conditions applied). Dad had ignored these as part of the usual barrage of marketing eMails.



Given that there was no way he could possibly have breached the 2GB cap, I started poking around and discovered that Windows 10 can generate upto 5GB of usage for software updates etc. This month alone, Windows 10 had used 1.3GB of his data allowance, just doing security and other software updates.



Software updates are mandatory for Windows 10 – so it's not free for my Dad – it's £120 / year!



Might be you too have an elderly relative affected by this issue – £120 is a lot of money for many elderly people.

There is an awful lot wrong here – An ISP can take money without asking, lack of protection for the elderly, Microsoft making free with ISP bandwidth etc…

Steve

[Steve WithnellParticipant @stevewithnell34426]

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

..and it's all in the fine print..

It's all part of modern con tricks: from simpy targetting kids to nag their parents into buying stuff to the classic lovely offer that suddenyl costs twice as much when the offer period runs out to banks/utilities not giving existing clients the same deal they offer to attract new ones..

Some years ago i ran a small website on a cheap limited usage rate. It got hacked and within a couple of days (with no warning from the ISP) and unnoticed by my monitoring (every few days) It had accunulated £1000 worth of extra bandwidth from a perpetually running script that had been dumped on it. Cynics would wonder if the ISP themselves had done it. I had to pay.

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

My suggestion would be to dump Windows in favour of Linux. My recommendation would be to use Linux Mint as it can be setup to look very similar to older versions of Windows, eg XP. No doubt other people will have their own preferred versions.

Linux is free, and all you would need to do is to download whichever version you decide on to your own machine, then write it to a DVD and load it onto your father's laptop. You could use dual booting if you wish, or you could go the whole hog and eliminate Windows completely.

The only problem I can see is that there is a feature on newer computers which attempts to prevent any other operating system being installed over Windows – I forget what it's called – but as far as I know, this feature can be overridden somewhere. I have no further details because none of my computers have this feature.

Linux does have upgrades just as Windows does, but, they are under the users control and if it is inconvenient, then they may be deferred to a more convenient time.

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

That's a very useful warning, Steve

MichaelG.

.

P.S. … That level of update activity might explain why both of my Win7 machines have 'frozen' on 'checking for updates' [even Micro$oft must have some limit to its server bandwidth]. The fantasy 'progress bar' keeps going, but there is little-or-nothing actually happening.

P.P.S. … It seems that M$ is now almost forcing Win10 upon us, so maybe I'm lucky that the latest updates have not been installed. … Interesting **LINK**

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 28/03/2016 11:07:57

[CotswoldsPhilParticipant @cotswoldsphil]

Windows 8.1 is nearly as bad – my laptop is often found running flat out – running Window Modules Helper Installer?

The laptop (Win 8.1) also seems to be getting slower – maybe MS's way of pushing me towards a Win 10 upgrade – no thanks.

Mozilla's Firefox and Thunderbird are also going the same way.

What beats me, is that non of the environmentalists have mentioned the amount of energy consumed around the world whilst all this updating is being distributed / installed.

Phil

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

In the pre 10 versions of Windows you can disable all the update stuff

I use 8.1 and XP now and everything is disabled. I back this up with a firewall called zonealarm which also blocks any sneaky internet contact by my computer

Win 10 appears to be getting like Android, once you "upgrade" to 10 you appear to be relinquishing control of your gadget to outside parties (for your own safety bla bla bla)

This may be "the future" for some folks but it ain't my future

Edit:

I use firefox version 27 for browsing and disable all updates in the options bit

The writing was on the wall over a decade ago btw

Edited By Ady1 on 28/03/2016 11:21:55

[CotswoldsPhilParticipant @cotswoldsphil]

I will be trying Linux shortly but only after installing a new/clean Solid State Drive (SSD). That way I can go back (to Win 8.1 without complication) if I decide to, by swapping drives. This will also allow me to test the speed of an SSD and Linux.

Another spare drive (originally Win 7) was upgraded to Win 10 for initial test purposes, so I won't miss out when the "Free Offer" runs out.

My desktop still runs XP with my legacy programs and is not even connected to the Router / Internet.

Phil

Edited By CotswoldsPhil on 28/03/2016 11:25:23

[Phil PParticipant @philp]

Download a utility called GWX Control Panel.

Using this you can remove all traces of the Windows 10 nagging software and anything it has downloaded without you knowing.

I have done it on my Win 7 PC and it worked a treat.

Phil

[FarmboyParticipant @farmboy]

I'm tied to Windows because of certain business software which will not run under Linux, otherwise I would have switched years ago.

One way you can reduce Windows 10 data usage is to go through the Privacy settings and turn EVERYTHING off. That should stop all those background apps constantly conecting with their masters over YOUR broadband connection

Just checking my data usage over the last 30 days shows Firefox as the top user with 6GB and Windows System bottom with 97MB.

Mike.

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

I've not read this thread chaps sorry, I don't have time.

I just wanted to highlight how desperately ridiculous a 2gb data allowance is. A single piece of software or Windows update is often between 2gb and 30gb with a single HD movie disk being around 50gb

My mobile phone has an allowance of 3gb which I often use.

My TV (which is connected to my internet) did an update that was 0.6gb last week.

I can complete a 2gb download in around 20 minutes using a traditional "through the phone" broadband package. With these fancy fibre connections, that comes down to just a few minutes

so your whole monthly data allowance would be just a few minutes to some, a movie trailer or an update for their microwave perhaps

I just wanted to layout out those yard sticks for general 21st century data usage!

Of course there isn't a more overweight greedy operating system that Windows 10, but for ease of use and broad automatic comparability with just about any mainstream program or device, it's hard to beat, just plug it in, switch it on, and forget about it

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

Oh, and there is a simple switch to flick, to tell Windows 10 it is on a restricted data allowance network, my switch is permanently flicked!

Also, there are other options in win10 that make your machine a host for updates to other machines, Microsoft have reduced their data hosting by making its users share updates with oneanother, so they just plant the seed and the update availability grows exponentially.

Again, you can disable all these options.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Russ, please tell us how….

[Steve WithnellParticipant @stevewithnell34426]

Posted by Russ B on 28/03/2016 12:27:44:

I've not read this thread chaps sorry, I don't have time.

I just wanted to highlight how desperately ridiculous a 2gb data allowance is. A single piece of software or Windows update is often between 2gb and 30gb with a single HD movie disk being around 50gb

My mobile phone has an allowance of 3gb which I often use.

My TV (which is connected to my internet) did an update that was 0.6gb last week.

I can complete a 2gb download in around 20 minutes using a traditional "through the phone" broadband package. With these fancy fibre connections, that comes down to just a few minutes

so your whole monthly data allowance would be just a few minutes to some, a movie trailer or an update for their microwave perhaps

I just wanted to layout out those yard sticks for general 21st century data usage!

Of course there isn't a more overweight greedy operating system that Windows 10, but for ease of use and broad automatic comparability with just about any mainstream program or device, it's hard to beat, just plug it in, switch it on, and forget about it

That's all fine – but why is a 2GB limit not suitable for a user who does no more than a few – say a dozen eMails per month and open a few 3 page PDF's?

It cannot be right (And I have been through the logs) that you need more than 2GB per month to sustain regular O/S updates – ie no Apps.

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

Steve, that's just the way of the way world – I suggest you read these 2 pages, and think about doing a little more research.

Remember, these guides are old so some things may have changed, moving buttons around and/or changing options is exactly the kind of trick I'd expect Microsoft to pull to prevent users following simple guides.

So start here with regards to the major download offences:

http://www.howtogeek.com/224981/how-to-stop-windows-10-from-uploading-updates-to-other-pcs-over-the-internet/

And then move along to here, to begin cutting off other information Microsoft will be gathering and sending to themselves (invading privacy as well as eating data allowance)

http://www.wired.com/2015/08/windows-10-security-settings-need-know/

I still maintain that it's the best OS out there because of its wide compatibility with just about everything, it is the standard, but oh boy,,,,,, they like to abuse their position………. I'm green with envy at Linux users, because the software and CAD packages I use require me to have Windows. I'm not green when it comes to working out Linux system problems, it is an alien language to me, once it stops working, I'm lost and unable to help myself.

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

From Steve Withnell "Sky Broadband connection with a 2GB usage limit"

Maybe time to switch your service provider?

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

Regarding the data allowance restriction, the correct terminology is "Metered Connection" I think.

http://www.groovypost.com/howto/manage-windows-10-data-usage/

Having disabled the above data gathering, and hosting of Microsofts updates, you will probably not need this, on a day to day basis, but when the updates come, a single one could easily break the monthly limit, so you may want to set the updates to "notify me, but let me choose what to install" or something to that effect. Allowing you to trickle them through, although I'd advise against this, as some are security related. Probably better (if he's on a laptop) to simply take it with you and connect it to your own broadband and eat up some of your data. Or go and sit in MacDonalds for an hour and use their free wifi!

[roy entwistleParticipant @royentwistle24699]

I have windows 10 on newish laptop It appears that I can uninstall updates Is this advisable ? Or best to leave well alone I can get a list of the updates ( I have no idea what any of them are )

Roy

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

Posted by roy entwistle on 28/03/2016 13:43:45:

I have windows 10 on newish laptop It appears that I can uninstall updates Is this advisable ? Or best to leave well alone I can get a list of the updates ( I have no idea what any of them are )

Roy

Roy,

Leave them alone, you want the updates. The only problem is getting them on a limited data allowance.

What you don't want, is for your computer and broadband to be a host for microsofts updates (see first link), and you also don't want Microsoft sticking it's nose in your business and gather and sending data about you (see second link) – both of the those things also use up your computers processing power slowing you down and eating your battery if you run on one.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

That price bracket for an ISP sounds like a bit of a sham, like mcnamara said, probably time to move on.

Michael W

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

Michael Walters, John McNamara, 2GB but….

ITS FREE

[roy entwistleParticipant @royentwistle24699]

Thank you Russ B

Roy

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I think Linux would be the best option too. Mint seems to be easy to set up and updates don't have the slowly slow down windows have always used. They usually don't involve a reboot either but when they do it can be done when the user feels like it. On very rare occasions a reboot may be needed in order to install more updates. Update time – it can be fully installed in less time than one or two windows updates I have come across.

If office type software is needed currently that should be libreoffice not openoffice. I would suggest installing foxit reader for pdf's as well and setting that to the default. It's small and fast. The linux one I have is slow and adobe may come with all linux distro's = big and cumbersome.

I use an ssd but only keep software on it. Can't get one small enough. All of my data files go to disk. Saves wearing the ssd out. As it's been used for a long time now and I want to upgrade I wish I had partitioned it to be sure of a new fresh unused area for the upgrade. It's 100gb and has rather a lot of software on it, it only takes up 17% of that.

John

–

[An OtherParticipant @another21905]

Linux Mint has (default) a PDF Reader called Evince – if you simply click a pdf file, it will normally open quickly in Evince – there is no need to waste time installing Foxit Reader. Adobe does NOT come with Mint, although I agree it is big cumbersome (and a security risk).

LibreOffice is also the default installation for Mint (using the Cinnamon desktop). OpenOffice disappeared long long ago. Note that Linux usually comes with a default list of Apps installed by default, so you get networking, browsing, office tools, music and graphic tools from the install – you don't have to buy them, unlike MS.

It is also possible to install almost any Linux distro as a dual-boot option to Windoze – you then get the option to boot either Linux or Windoze at startup.

Note you can also try most Linux distros to see if it would suit you by downloading onto a USB stick (most distro sites will tell you how to do this), then you can run Linux from the stick, without loading it onto your computer.

For those who insist on using Windoze, there is an app known as WINE for Linux which allows many Windows apps to run in Linux – it is NOT an emulator – it works by redirecting Windows calls to Linux. This means not all Windows apps will work. Personally, I find WINE fairly useless, but another alternative is to run a virtual machine under Linux, such as Oracle VirtualBox. This is available for free download for almost all OSs (Linux, Windows ,Apple, etc), and sets up a virtual machine under your OS. You can then install any other operating system (or even multiple OSs) in the VM, and it runs exactly as if it was installed on your machine, usually with the added advantage of access to the Hosts files if set up for that. I have been running Mint for years now, and still run XP in the virtual machine because I am stuck with some work-related software which does not run on Linux.

The best move I ever made was to dump Windoze – it is slow, cumbersome, far too bloated, too slow too update (ref this thread), too buggy, and prone to virus attack. (are there any good things about WIndows?).

I should note that some software/hardware producers apparently will not support Linux, despite its growing user base. I recently had trouble setting up an Acer netbook – the video drivers were not made openly available, so the Linux install had to drive the display in software rendering mode – a bit slow, but at least it worked.

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

RussB,

You say it is the way of the world. May I say, only if you let it! Unfortunately, that website reference re wired.com you gave gives a good example of what is going wrong with today's IT world in that it puts up an advert which totally blocks the text you are trying to read – unless you do something like pay for the privilege of not receiving the advert.

It is a fact that big business wants to control you, your equipment, your money, and everything else – at your expense of course – and Microsoft is merely joining in. It is up to us to oppose this by whatever means possible – in my case by using Linux.

Windows 10 is the best OS out there. Really? When it does all those sneaky things so ably highlighted within this thread? It works, it maintains compatibility etc. So does Linux, and in some respects Linux set the standard which Microsoft is only now trying to emulate – I refer, for example, to the way Windows up to and including XP always gave full administrator privileges to the user, something Linux has never done.

In respect of software, unless you have a specialist program which requires the use of Windows, there are indeed equivalent Linux programs which again are free, and which, although perhaps not perfect, seek to provide all the equivalence to Windows programs. And even if you have a "must have" Windows (or DOS) only program, use of Wine or a Oracle Virtual Box can assist in running the program.

There is also the fact that if people continue to use Windows "because it's there and everyone uses it" etc, then there is little incentive for software writers to make Linux versions of software available. I am using old versions of DesignCAD 3D via Wine for this very reason, yet there is actually a thread on the DesignCAD forum about the use of DesignCAD under Linux so maybe IMSI or whoever might start thinking about it.

I know we've been asked by Neil (on another thread) not to go into anti-Microsoft rants, but it really is difficult not to do so when we discover just what Microsoft are doing. I feel quite strongly that we should all be able to do what we want, and when we want, with our computers without Microsoft placing restrictions in our way. Furthermore, I object strongly to any attempt by any organisation to garner information about me. What business is it of Microsoft, Google, or indeed anyone what I do with my equipment?

In respect of problems with Linux, may I point out that there is a support forum for (in my case) Linux Mint. Furthermore, the main programmer, Clement Lefevre, appears actively on these forums. Therefore, there isn't really much of a problem in this respect.

This is why I am now a happy user of Linux Mint.

Peter G. Shaw

Edited By Peter G. Shaw on 28/03/2016 19:53:24

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