Win 10 update

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Yesterday I made the mistake of updating to the latest Win 10. Disaster.

Microsoft has taken control of my Lapton, Wants me to open a Microsoft Account, leaves a voice operation,(I rejected Cortana ages ago).+ other unwanted items.

How do I escape and remove update?

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Win10 on Laptop

[BizibilderParticipant @bizibilder]

There is little point in backing out an update as MS will simply reinstall it. You should be able to click through the screen asking you to open a MS account – whatever you do don't "sign up" if you don't want one. There is absolutely no need to have an account.

You can disable Cortana easily enough – google how to do it and follow the instructions. You can delete it but MS will simply reinstall it again! I also suggest you switch from Bing as your preferred search engine and strongly recommend using anything other than MS Edge for the internet! – Google Chrome is a good alternative.

Once you are sorted have a look in settings for all the privacy switches that you should also disable to prevent MS farming your data.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

I just went through all their big brother stuff so the missus brand new laptop could work with W11

Never seen one where the computer won't actually work unless you register with MS

I used a Gmail account, and a lot of swearing at their new system, these people have no respect for privacy

It's actually ok once you get up and running (2 weeks so far)

I have her using Firefox plus these guys

 

Edited By Ady1 on 23/10/2022 13:29:50

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

once you have wasted time recovering a modicum of control over your own property give some thought as to why you still support Microsoft – alternatives are available for most activities.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

I'd stick with with W10 rather than try to reverse out because doing so can go horribly wrong. If you decide to stick with it there are plenty of websites that explain what you need to do turn the obnoxious stuff in W10 off. Like this one. Bit of a pain to wade through, but quicker and safer than trying to revert.

You don't need a Microsoft Account, just close the Window that asks to set it up.

W10 is fine once you get used to the changes – it's not that different – and disable all the privacy intrusions. It's shameful that Microsoft defaults open rather than locking down and allowing the user to open up if he specifically wants to. I guess Microsoft's problem is that very few users are daft enough to deliberately open privacy settings, which is necessary for Microsoft to profit from them. But W10 can be locked down, it's just a PITA having to do it.

Picking up on Frances' point, one of the nice things about Linux is it can be run off a memory stick without actually installing it on the computer. Runs rather slowly but can you check everything works and you 'get it' before installing it for keeps. Microsoft upgrades are less friendly.

However, Linux isn't everyone's cup of tea: friend of mine tried it expecting it to be exactly like Windows, and it isn't. Fried his brain – he couldn't comprehend a computer being anything other than the Microsoft, and gave up in frustration.

Dave

[Bryan Cedar 1Participant @bryancedar1]

Surely Windows are now on Windows 11 which is normally updated from W10?

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

You don't need a Microsoft Account, just close the Window that asks to set it up.

No longer an option with the W11 my missus had

There was a load of no-option stuff to get her Currys one going, quite shocking really

I'm sticking with W7 more than ever now

[Douglas JohnstonParticipant @douglasjohnston98463]

I recently bought a replacement for a clapped out laptop and only noticed it was installed with windows 11S when it arrived. This version of windows is supposed to be more secure, hence the S , but you can only download Microsoft apps with it which can be rather restricting. One can apparently revert to the standard W11 if desired although I have heard that it can sometimes be problematical.

Doug

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

That was the first thing I zapped, the 'S' option

Might be ok for youngsters to stop them going places they shouldn't but useless for adults

Even basic software refuses to run on it

[Douglas JohnstonParticipant @douglasjohnston98463]

Posted by Ady1 on 23/10/2022 16:56:26:

That was the first thing I zapped, the 'S' option

Might be ok for youngsters to stop them going places they shouldn't but useless for adults

Even basic software refuses to run on it

Did you have any problem with getting rid of the S option Ady , I think I will probably do the same.

Doug

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

About 15 months ago, I bought two new laptops – one for everyday use with the other for backup purposes. Both came with Windows partially installed and requiring installation completing including setting up a Microsoft account. As some of you may know, I don't use Microsoft at all if I can help it, indeed I much prefer Linux Mint and other Open Source software. Anyway, I was somewhat concerned about the warranty but I found that in the instructions I received there was the possibility of completely removing Windows once installation was complete, along with the possibility of downloading the Windows installation onto a memory stick in case future installation was required.

So, I continued the installation, and somehow managed to convince Windows that I wasn't going to set up a Microsoft account. Eventually I had a working Windows and no account. At this point I downloaded and set up the memory sticks, one for each laptop. I followed this by loading Linux Mint on top of Windows. Job complete, and no Microsoft account.

As someone else above has intimated, I object strongly to people such as Microsoft attempting to control MY computer, a computer that I have paid good money for. Could you imagine the outcry if, eg Ford started to dictate which make of fuel you should use in your car? Do you remember a few years ago when car manufacturers were told that they could NOT force people to have their new car serviced by the main dealer? And that they had to honour the warranty as long as whoever did the service could show that the servicing had been done correctly? So why do Microsoft think they can get away with controlling what people do with their computers?

Sorry for the rant folks, it's just that I detest these American corporations who attempt to control our lives, Microsoft being just one of many such organisations.

Cheers,

Peter G. Shaw

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

The missus only does photos and surfing shopping sites

her unit will never be used for much so I could never give a good opinion on W11

I use W7

I got rid of the 'S' option so she could use Firefox,

had to find a site somewhere to help me, but the big problem was the option didn't really say it was about to be removed, it was a sort of very bad way of saying it, no doubt by design because things are getting quite nefarious nowadays

Edited By Ady1 on 23/10/2022 17:46:22

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I'm probably the least IT-literate PC user here, but I didn't seem to have any problems stopping things like Cortana, perhaps because I did not set up an "account" – whatever that really means in Mickeysoft-ese – and I use Firefox. This though, is on a factory-rebuilt, all-in-one, Dell PC with W10 already loaded.

It kept trying to make me obey and use Edge, but eventually Gates Towers took the hint and stopped badgering me to use it. Edge is there, shown by its curly symbol at the side of the screen, but I ignore it.

Loading TurboCAD 2021 and SolidEdge (CE) was easy but I expected that as they are written for W-10.

Transferring drawing files (.tcw) from TC 2019 on my previous PC seems reliable.

The HP 1510 printer driver is happy with WIN-10 but I have not yet tried the 7510 one (A3 printer, some random-size-smaller scanner); largely because I've not needed to try to print an A3 drawing for a long time now.

Of third-party software, one called "Survex" works. This is a public-domain reader for digitally-recorded cave surveys, and might well have be a W10 edition although I don't know that.

Regarding intrusion, I think Facebook and its brothers-in-Meta are up there in the top spying stakes, as are instruments like 'Alexa'. I refuse to use them even for passive viewing of things like club FB pages – if that is possible to do without an "account" anyway.

I agree wholeheartedly with Peter Shaw's comment about these controlling and coercive American corporations!

(Just paused to delete the Edge screen symbol! I bet it reappears when I next turn the confuser on.)

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Peter G. Shaw on 23/10/2022 17:37:49:

[…]

So why do Microsoft think they can get away with controlling what people do with their computers?

[…]

.

Quite simply, Peter … because they only ever license you to use their software

You own your computer hardware, and are entitled to do with it what you will … BUT, and yes it’s a big BUT, you never actually ‘own’ a copy of Windows … It’s all there in excruciating detail in the EULA

Your choice is to either to use it on their terms, or not use it.

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Here’s a copy of the killer paragraph, courtesy of Xerox:

[ just because it was easy to find there ]

**LINK**

https://www.support.xerox.com/en-eg/content/147259

.

By accepting this agreement or using the software, you agree to all of these terms, and consent to the transmission of certain information during activation and during your use of the software as per the privacy statement described in Section 3. If you do not accept and comply with these terms, you may not use the software or its features. You may contact the device manufacturer or installer, or your retailer if you purchased the software directly, to determine its return policy and return the software or device for a refund or credit under that policy. You must comply with that policy, which might require you to return the software with the entire device on which the software is installed for a refund or credit, if any.

.

There are probably variations, according to the issue status, but that has always been the essence of it.

MichaelG.

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

I have just installed Windows 10 on an old computer and did so with a Local Account (button on the bottom left hand corner). Also said No to Cortana and other online options.

Change to a Local Account by:

1. Save all your work.
2. In Start , select Settings > Accounts > Your info.
3. Select Sign in with a local account instead.
4. Type the user name, password, and password hint for your new account. The user name must be different than any others on the device. Note: If you’re using Windows 10, version 1803, you can add security questions—instead of a hint—to your local account to help you reset your password in case you forget it. Check your version of Windows 10
5. Select Next,then select Sign out and finish. Sign back in with your new local account.
6. If you didn’t add security questions to help you reset your password, it’s a good idea to create a password reset disk. If you don't do this and then forget your password, you won't be able to recover it.

[Mike HurleyParticipant @mikehurley60381]

My 3 year old laptop used to run W10 quite happily, foolishly decided to upgrade to W11 when offered. BIG mistake! Why?

. For most general purposes it offers no advantage, just advanced 'bells & whistles' & cosmetic 'enhancements'

. Upgrades take an enormous time – seeming to just replace the whole op system at least once a month. Takes about 5 hours, machine totally unusable during that time. (I do now 'pause' any updates in advance via settings until a more convenient time.)

. Generally the machine is much slower than before – for those more techy, 'task manager' now frequently shows massive CPU load and memory usage even when not doing very much (but seems to be continuously running 100's of background processes – hence the loading)

, I stick with Windows as it runs several often used apps that don't run on other platforms.

. I have Linux mint on a 10 -year old low spec Acer laptop in the workshop, and it runs sweet as a nut! Just doesn't support all the apps I use a lot.

. You don't need a Microsoft account to do anything! W11 does nag you about it though.

Stick with W10 as long as you can is my advice – wish I had.

regards Mike

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

Mike
have you tried your key apps under WINE possibly on latest version of Mint (or my now favourite MX) if an old app (eg of XP or Vista vintage) mostly likely to run – the only doubtful ones tend to be the subscription based apps which are locked into the MS empire partly for control but mostly because most of their commercial customers are also locked into MS.

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Thanks for that MichaelG –

The Xerox version of the bit of the Microsoft EULA says it all – and trying to be positive seems in fact to be a bit more restrained than some I have seen – the original Lotus123 and Novell Netware ones spring to mind.

The most important point is that if you buy a laptop and Windows you MAY be required to return the Laptop for refund if you don't accept the EULA. They come as a package and it is up to Microsoft what happens, although in practice there would never be an issue IMHO.

I am a little bemused sometimes regarding the 'privacy' issue as while my online banking is secured with an external Securekey – a small calculator like device that produces a one-time PIN, there is no information I would really be worried about anyone else seeing on the computer. Security against viruses etc is a different issue of course.

Family photos I show to others whenever their threshold of boredom drops and the few bits of writing I do I am grateful for anyone to read. What websites I visit only list the details of an averagely boring lifestyle and are cleared on exiting the browser anyway.

No sensitive information such as passwords or card details is stored on the computer.

Others may have a philosophical objection to non-sensitive information being seen by others – but personally if they can do no harm with it, I just get on with life.

To put it in perspective – if you drop your house and car keys on the drive and leave them there while struggling in with a load of shopping you could be open to a greater financial loss than anything involving a computer.

Nick

 

Edited By Nick Clarke 3 on 24/10/2022 11:01:21

[Mike HurleyParticipant @mikehurley60381]

Posted by Frances IoM on 24/10/2022 10:23:23:
Mike
have you tried your key apps under WINE possibly on latest version of Mint (or my now favourite MX) if an old app (eg of XP or Vista vintage) mostly likely to run – the only doubtful ones tend to be the subscription based apps which are locked into the MS empire partly for control but mostly because most of their commercial customers are also locked into MS.

Yes have been running Wine for a time and while it's OK, does have the habit of very intermittently freezing in a couple of my favorite apps. It also doesn't always offer full functionality either. Now this may be because of the apps themselves (quite old) or just the fact that it's quite an elderly laptop. Perhaps if and when it dies of old age may see how things run on a more modern replacement?

Thanks for the comments anyway . Regards

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Nick Clarke 3 on 24/10/2022 10:31:12:

…

I am a little bemused sometimes regarding the 'privacy' issue as … there is no information I would really be worried about anyone else seeing on the computer. …

No sensitive information such as passwords or card details is stored on the computer.

Others may have a philosophical objection to non-sensitive information being seen by others – but personally if they can do no harm with it, I just get on with life.

…

Not a philosophical objection in my case Nick, it's based on a career in IT that included several years in and around computer security.

For example how do you know that no sensitive information is stored on your computer? You may not have put it there yourself, but the computer runs programs that store data and websites store cookies on your machine that might include login information. And much else besides.

I first became aware of the possibilities when asked as a junior programmer if I could analyse the data held on my employers mainframe computer to help pin down where a type of stock was going missing. I wrote a program that reviewed 5 years worth of transactions – millions of them – and was able to show that it, and other items not previously suspected, were going missing from particular warehouse (out of nearly 20) and at particular dates. From the dates the police were able to identify an individual, who went to jail after a conventional enquiry confirmed he was a wrong 'un. To this day I doubt he knows that he was caught because a computer correlated 5 years worth of data and picked his discreet thieving out of a very busy data-set. Far too time-consuming and labour intensive to do manually and the computer did it in about half an hour. He'd been careful and thought he was anonymous. He wasn't. By modern standards the mainframe I used was a joke – the same job could be done today on an ordinary laptop in about 20 seconds.

The bad guys work in a similar way. They collect and analyse data too, also over long periods. They look for the weaklings in the herd rather than juicy individuals. A computer with poor security is always worth investigating and even if completely clean on entry can be used as a springboard. Turning on the webcam and microphone; installing a key logger; or using the machine and it's network connection to host porn or distribute spam. Worst risk of all I think is collecting enough personal data to to pull off an identity theft or run a convincing major con-trick.

Most bother can be circumvented by taking reasonable precautions, for example on the forum I use a pseudonym rather than my real name and avoid leaking personal data in posts. A number of forum members know who I really am, but it's not easy (I hope) for an outsider to get my name and address by scanning the forum. Thus I avoid unwanted adverts, and perhaps a visit from a ne'er do well who's identified my workshop as a valuable source of scrap metal!

The more I learned about computer security the more I realised that hackers can be seriously clever. It pays not to leave obvious loop-holes for them to exploit, and the loop-hole could be on your machine, or Microsoft's, or |Facebook's, or any of the others who collect data for sale, or might be hacked themselves. I certainly don't what to be hacked by a 'Script Kiddy', that is an individual who knows how to probe with certain software tools, but isn't talented enough to come up with an original exploit.

For the same reason I try hard not to leave my keys lying on the drive, and don't hide them under the door mat!

Dave

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Hi Dave –

Like you my career for the last 45 years after a few false starts selling to the Motor Trade has been in IT but in an educational context rather than in your commercial background.

I do protect my computers against hacking and viruses, as I mentioned but my belief that there is little to steal from most computers still stands.

However I think that the original comments were about allowing a software manufacturer access to one's system and unfortunately no number of software systems can prevent this if one has given permission when installing the software.

I just don't think there is much that can be stolen under this authorised access on the average home computer.

As you say hacking and similar attacks can be issues but I do protect against these.

Take care,

Nick

[DiodeDickParticipant @diodedick]

All of the above summarises why I am still using an elderly XP desk-top for documents and drawings, with the on-line stuff (including this) done on an iPad. I just cannot be bothered with the hassle and privacy issues with an new machine. Yes, I do keep frequent back ups ready for the inevitable blue screen of death…

Dick

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

Gave up on Microsoft some years back but do keep at windows laptop for a couple of pieces of software which are not available on Linux, needless to say that machine is not automatically connected to the internet

H

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