Why is it so quiet here?

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

If you think there are not many active now on this site then look at Steam Groep Holland,Technical Forum, the last posting I’m aware of was 2weeks or more ago. The software was updated a while a go. It is interesting that it appears to use similar software. Noel

[File HandleParticipant @filehandle]

To me it seems mostly OK now, except for the speed. I assume that this is due to a database server that can’t cope, or less likely some bad coding. I hope it gets fixed soon.

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

The old website software was a bespoke platform for MyTimeMedia largely written by Mark Hawkins who has long gone onto other things. Back in around 2006 or thereabouts it was very clever for its time but the forum function was developed as an extension of the main website and integrated with it in quite complex ways. It was never intended that the forum might need to be migrated to another system altogether.

Mortons have their own software platform based on WordPress to run websites for their many magazines and have a common house style. Understandably they wanted the ex MTM websites and their associated forums to comply with this.

There is a plugin extension to WordPress called bbPress which frovides forum functions and this appears to have been seen as the best way in principle to integrate the MTM modelling forums. Understandable.

However it has proved extremely difficult to map and port over the MTM bespoke system data into the WordPress/bbPress data structures and most of the problems we are experiencing are related to this. The external developers contracted by Mortons to deal with the technicalities have performed poorly leaving Mortons in house people to pick up the pieces.

There may have been other options had there been more detailed investigation been done at the outset but a lot of money has been spent and we are where we are. As someone with an IT background I can appreciate the problems faced by Mortons IT staff and their efforts to turn things around. They have made a huge amoiunt of progress but there is still work to do, not least in improving response times on this site and resolving the outstanding bugs and inconsistencies.

The most pressing issue seems to be the response times on this site. The Model Boats site is currently running on a different server and not experiencing this to any significant degree. The difference seems to be associated with the fact thet the MB forum is much smaller than this one with much less data to manage.

Colin (Moderator Model Boats Forum)

 

 

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks for sharing that, Colin

MichaelG.

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Edit: __ Strangely, I don’t currently seem able to find the Forum Statistics; but here’s a screenshot from October:

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[Anonymous]

+1

Yes, thank you Colin

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Thanks for the explanation Colin, it’s just a pity that the site is now a shadow of it’s former self. Noel

[vic neweyParticipant @vicnewey60017]

I’ve already pointed out a major problem and that is because each thread does not have it’s own dedicated page,  it also has a huge mass of links to all the other latest posts down below as well as at the side at the top.

Is that normal for a forum? absolutely not, this forum will never run properly, the more they try to fix it the worse it gets.

I’ve reached the point now that when I click to view ME forum I also click another forum to view while I wait for this one to load,  when it finally loads I then select several new posts in new tabs and view whichever loads first.

Actually this forum makes me reminisce about the old days of dial up internet

 

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Parsing tons of text from one system over to another can be a challenge

I used to use C because it’s so fast

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Colin, thank you for your clear explanation of how we got to where we are.

I have no knowledge of the inner workings of a website but I do know its complicated, as a layman I can only go by what I see when I visit and use the site, in my opinion this one is dire.

Different users have different experiences, some are good but the majority are not happy but mostly they are prepared to wait until things improve. For my part, its not the speed I worry about but more the visual presentation and organisation, vast areas of screen are wasted and far too many different font sizes make for very poor readability.

I know some of the readability problems can be circumvented by the user changing settings on their PC but one should not have to do that just to suit one particular website.

Ian P

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I must admit I’d not noticed the background has been darkened, probably because I’d turned my screen down a bit anyway.

Although it confused me when I posted an image whose own background was of very similar tint, disguising its lower edge; a slightly dimmer display is something I welcome. I certainly didn’t complain about it!

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For the rest, I do wonder if Mortons tripped up by trying to make two massive changes all in one go.

The first, as I understood it, was to cope with the host software having to be up-dated. I assume they had no choice in that.

The other was throw the site’s visible design at a committee of arts-graduates to play with its appearance for no clear reason.

Both at the same time.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

I’m AWOL due to time-consuming family circumstances.   No forum or workshop for me, I’ve nearly run out of clean shirts, my utility room’s flat-roof is leaking, and now I’ve caught a cold!

Whoever invented the flat roof should be shot.  They’re a leak waiting to happen.

Dave

 

 

[SillyOldDuffer]

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

 

Whoever invented the flat roof should be shot.

He was – they buried him upright.

 

They’re a leak waiting to happen.

Me too!

 

(actually just checking out multiple quoting – this at least is an improvement on the old site)

[ZanParticipant @zan]

3 mins to get to latest posts then another eternal wait when selecting a topic. Dreadful. Only visit once a week or so, not several times a day. Great shame

[ZanParticipant @zan]

Ps that post above took 20 seconds to submit. Terrible it’s not getting any better

[SillyOldDuffer]

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

I’m AWOL due to time-consuming family circumstances.   No forum or workshop for me, I’ve nearly run out of clean shirts, my utility room’s flat-roof is leaking, and now I’ve caught a cold!

Whoever invented the flat roof should be shot.  They’re a leak waiting to happen.

Dave

 

 

Tend to agree, why the previous occupant of our bungalow opted for a flat roof rather than reworking the pitch roof on the kitchen extension to save a bit of money.
However when the felt on ours split 14 years ago I patched it using plasters scrim and bitumatic mastic. every few years it gets a couple of coats of roof sealer, which keeps it waterproof.

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

Whoever invented the flat roof should be shot could not agree more

H

 

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

To return to Ian’s opening question [not that I have any objection to a good digression, please note] … I think the reason that it’s so quiet here is simply that the ludicrous ‘latency’ discourages anything approaching normal conversation.

MichaelG.

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Michael, it also be that people are finding hard to start new topics?

Currently I visit the forum following links in notifications and inspite of looking on other pages find it hard to locate the ‘create new topic’ button.

I tried the ‘search’ function (even that too is pretty well hidden) but I don’t recall that it helped. I’ve just this second tried to find the search but stopped because I’m logged in and don’t have the time or patience.

Ian P

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Simply go to forums, select which forum heading you feel your new topic belongs in and click that.

At the top of the existing topics in the list that comes up is a blue button ” Create new Topic”

Search is at the top of the Forum headings reached by clicking “forum” again with a blue background.

Both these are really no different to where they were on the old forum which people seem to want to go back to but they did not complain about finding them hard to locate there, maybe just a case of getting used to the new site.

If you are using the site following notifications then you are bypassing the Forum headings and as the notifications take you to a topic not where you create a new topic then that is likely to be your problem. It was no different on the old system where you could not create a new thread from the page showing another thread.

I have notifications turned off all except PMs which I get an e-mail notification of plys the ones we get as moderators such as 1st posts, reported replies, etc

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

When a client complained that the flat roof of his new expensive house leaked in the rain, a famous American architect is supposed to have replied “of course, that’s how you know it’s a roof”!

[JasonB]

On JasonB Said:

Simply go to forums, select which forum heading you feel your new topic belongs in and click that.

At the top of the existing topics in the list that comes up is a blue button ” Create new Topic

“Simply go to forums”
Which one? (I mean which ‘Forum’ button’. On the banner across the middle of the screen (dark blue, light blue and green) there are three forum buttons. I know you said there were eight originally but IMHO removing these visible and really obvious duplicates would take a few lines out of the code without any loss of functionality. I think each button takes me to the same place which is ‘Latest Replies’ .That list shows some of the forums and might not contain the the right one for the new topic I wanted.

 

Search is at the top of the Forum headings reached by clicking “forum” again with a blue background.

Maybe the forum should come with a user manual or explanatory leaflet that explains the different action that each button does.

Both these are really no different to where they were on the old forum which people seem to want to go back to but they did not complain about finding them hard to locate there, maybe just a case of getting used to the new site.

I think the ONLY reason people want to go back to the old forum is because this one is so bad!

If you are using the site following notifications then you are bypassing the Forum headings and as the notifications take you to a topic not where you create a new topic then that is likely to be your problem. It was no different on the old system where you could not create a new thread from the page showing another thread.

You make it sound as if I am not using the forum the way the developers want me to!

I agree creating a new thread on the old system was not as straightforward as it could have been, it could/should have been improved for the new one though.

I have notifications turned off all except PMs which I get an e-mail notification of plys the ones we get as moderators such as 1st posts, reported replies, etc

I know that you (Jason) reply to threads speedily, frequently, and all hours of the day, how do you do know there is a new reply to respond to if you dont use the emails?

Oh, sorry. I’ve just remembered it was ‘subscribe’ that you said originally had eight buttons.

Regards

Ian P

 

 

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Ian’s observations are just the sort of useful input that should have been harvested at ‘beta-testing’ prior to migration …  but, instead, development seems to have adopted the risky approach of jumping-in at the deep-end and assuming that only a few minor adjustments will be required.

I hope I am wrong, but it looks to me like the baby has been thrown-out with the bathwater.

MichaelG.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Do the advertisers realise how bad things are and numbers are falling ? They are paying good money and might bring pressure to bear to at least speed things up. Noel

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

I’m sure Jason, Dave, Bill and others WERE giving very relevant input, but my impression is that by the time they were involved the developers had dug too far down the hole and became overwhelmed.

Ian P

 

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Below is the text of a notification email that arrived whilst I was typing my reply 691461
Following the link took me to the same page as my own reply.!!!

Ian P

Edit did not seem to work, or am I now in edit mode? (submit has appeared again)

noel shelley wrote:

Do the advertisers realise how bad things are and numbers are falling ? They are paying good money and might bring pressure to bear to at least speed things up. Noel

Post Link: https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/topic/why-is-it-so-quiet-here/page/2/#post-691455

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