Why is everything you buy such rubbish!!

[Martin WParticipant @martinw]

Hi

 

Personally I like the freedom this and threads like ‘Metric v Imperial’ give contributors. It gives one chance to either let of steam or to reminisce or moan about things past or even new. Rose tinted goggles are great and us oldies frequently view the past through them, what is it they say ‘Nostalgia – a thing of the past’.

 

To clear the rosiness you only need to look at pictures of factories in the 1950s and now to see the difference. Then there were rows of lathes being attended by skilled craftsmen and now there are a few large computer controlled units running basically unattended. The modern version is churning out near virtually identical parts time after time while in the 50s the output was lower with a far greater variation.

 

Yes of course the engineering industry has shrunk but the output is more consistent and reliable. Perhaps I am Off Topic but what the hell, as I said I like the freedom these threads give.  KEEP IT UP.

 

David re your ‘splee cheker’  (smiley time) I have a Google bar at the top of my page and this has a spell check button which I can use for splee cheking, it even gives one a selection of languages.

 

 

Keep up the good work 

 

Cheers

 

Martin

Edited By Martin W on 12/11/2010 12:33:10

Edited By Martin W on 12/11/2010 12:35:42

Edited By Martin W on 12/11/2010 12:37:05

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by Martin W on 12/11/2010 12:30:53:

Hi

 

Personally I like the freedom this and threads like ‘Metric v Imperial’ give contributors. It gives one chance to either let of steam or to reminisce or moan about things past or even new. Rose tinted goggles are great and us oldies frequently view the past through them, what is it they say ‘Nostalgia – a thing of the past’…………

 

 ‘CLIP’

 

Cheers

 

Martin

 

 Hi Martin,

 

surely the saying should be:-

 

‘ Nostalgia, ain’t what it used to be’

 

Terry

[Martin WParticipant @martinw]

Hi Terry

 

Only if you are looking at it through rose tinted glasses .

 

Martin

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Hi Martin,

 

Exactly my sentiment,

 

Best regards

 

Terry

[Martin WParticipant @martinw]

Terry

 

It’s a sad reflection of today’s memories that even nostalgia isn’t as good today as it used to be  – must be something to do with metrication or the euro I reckon.

 

Cheers

 

Martin

[Mark P.Participant @markp]

Hi all, I really didn’t  think that I would get this much reaction,but maybe an OT forum would go down well.It seems to work on other sites that I use these are mainly motorcycle based,and they seem popular with the users.

Regards to all Pailo.

[David AtkinsParticipant @davidatkins33066]

….This thread with 86 posts and 3739 views since 7Nov must be classed as
popular but it doesn’t have much to do with Model Engineering….

 

Anyone ever wondered what today’s model engineering scene would be like without cheap Chinese tooling ?

 

I suspect it would be much smaller as many of us would only be able to look at some lucky fellows expensive 30 year old British built lathe and wish we could afford one.

 

I certainly wouldn’t be able to afford a lathe AND a milling machine.

 

Dave

 

 

 

 

 

[Steve GarnettParticipant @stevegarnett62550]

Posted by David Atkins on 13/11/2010 21:24:08:

Anyone ever wondered what today’s model engineering scene would be like without cheap Chinese tooling ?

 

I suspect it would be much smaller as many of us would only be able to look at some lucky fellows expensive 30 year old British built lathe and wish we could afford one.

 

We are likely to get told off if we do this, but yes I have thought about it, and there are several possibilities: Firstly, perhaps not all of the firms that used to make smaller-scale machine tools would have gone out of business, which might have forced the remaining one’s prices down a bit… secondly, and probably more realistically, it would have forced the price of comparatively rare non-Chinese machines to be rather higher than it already is – simply because of scarcity value. 

So even though I don’t personally use Chinese machine tools at home, I’m still very grateful that they exist, because it would almost inevitably have put the prices of the UK stuff I do use out of my reach if they didn’t. Some of these machines are relatively expensive anyway – the price of Senior mills still holds up pretty well, and it’s still difficult to pick up even an old UK-made lathe that’s any good as it stands for less than about £600. And if you buy this stuff, you will probably still have to do as much work to it as you might to some new Chinese machine tools – you still have wear problems to deal with, after all. And on that basis, you are looking at a similar prospect in both cases – you’ve bought a set of castings, and you are fixing them up to a standard you’re happy with. 

In my case it was a matter of circumstance that it worked out like this; I could just as easily have bought Chinese for most of what I’ve got, I think, and almost certainly have got perfectly acceptable (to me) results from it, as generally it’s not the tools that cause the indifferent results, is it?

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

At the time I bought my Taiwanese lathe about 22 years ago it was a toss up between the one I got and a Russian lathe with a geared head and costing about the same as the belt head  Taiwanese, its a 1326 with a gap to take 17″. I don’t think the Ruski is around any more. 

Surely if there are that many in the UK that want a  british lathe, without the price of  certain current machines, some one could set up building, or making kits so that modlers could build a reasonably simple, but robust small lathe, its been done in the past. Ian S C

Edited By Ian S C on 14/11/2010 09:41:51

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

A late reply to Ian who said:

 

he German Junkers engine was proberbly a more advanced design  being an axial flow type instead of the Centrfigal compressor of the British engines by RR, DH etc.

I understand some wartime Gloster jet engines can still be run under their own power. The Junkers ones used to have to be fullyreconditioned after about 30 minutes flight time.

 

Nuff said?

 

Neil

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Hi Neil, yes there are Vampires flying in NZ with thier DH Goblin engines, sure the engines have lasted well, so would the German engines built with the same materials. I think it was theGermen designs that the USA took up, although they started with a donation of samples and information from Britain, they did’nt stay with the centrifugal type for long. I see though that the model gas turbines are mostly centrifugal compressor type engines, with the very small diameter of engine an axial flow compressor can’t produce enough pressure within the limit of the revs available,120,000rpm or so. Ian S C

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

The centrifugal compressor is easier to design but not as good, especially since it increases the frontal area. The Germans are very good engineers, underestimate them at your peril. But I suspect that by 1944 some strategic materials might have been getting into short supply, so it would not be too surprising if they were having difficulty making high temperature alloys.

 

regards

John

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Thats right John, they were trying powdered coal as a fuel, I  think they were having problems with feed from the fuel tanks, the stuff burns like oil. The local saw-mill uses powdered coal fed through a nozzle in its boiler.Ian S C

[Bill PudneyParticipant @billpudney37759]

A quick comment to those who believe that in days of yore, machine shops were full of highly skilled machinists…..they were’nt.  Where I did my apprenticeship in the late ’60’s they had a row of about a dozen capstans, all operated by “semi skilled” people.  The only time a highly skilled individual was anywhere near the machines was during the set up of a new part and the breaking down of the set up of an “old” part.  The skilled person would set up the new part, run the required quantity of first offs, wait for inspection, and then the semi skilled bod would take over, with little real knowledge of what was going on.  The training for a semi skilled lathe operator amounted to seeing if they could read and interpret a very explicit set of instructions.  From memory the Machine shop had about 100 people working two shifts, of those there were only about 15 or 20 skilled people.

 Incidentally the capstans were all German made during WW2 and considered as war reparation, whilst making a guard for one of them, I spent some time underneath it, with the manufacturers plate about an inch away from my eyes.  Can’t remember who the maker was though!!

cheers

Bill Pudney

Edited By Bill Pudney on 22/11/2010 01:15:18

Edited By Bill Pudney on 22/11/2010 01:16:15

[adyParticipant @ady]

My old boy did piecework in the midlands in the 1950s and he said there were never enough skilled bods around if your machine ran out of true…so you had to stand and wait, hopping from foot to foot like someone needing to pee while you waited for your turn to grab him to reset the machine and start making money again.

 

Saturday Night and Sunday Morning

(1960) with Albert Finney

Gives some insight to the times for those too young to know about the joys of piecework.

 

[larry PhelanParticipant @larryphelan54019]

The Japs learned Fast ! and I mean Fast ! Early on, they made crap [remember the joke "made in Japan "? ]

Not anymore [think Toyota,Honda ] Their prices rose as their living standards rose.their stuff is no longer cheap,but it works. The situation in China is much the same,they can change,and will,but only if their customers make them,by rejecting their rubbish. Put pressure on your dealers,and if you annoy them enough,they will become a bit more choosy about who they buy from.

PS I can,t remember the last time I saw an English motorbike on the road,can you ?

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Triumph are one of the biggest sellers in the uk and mostly made here.

Mike

[IanTParticipant @iant]

I'm quite sure the Chinese can (and do) make extremely good machine tools & accessories – but probably not at the kind of price that would suit the average UK 'hobbyist'. Most of the Far Eastern accessories that I have purchased are not only better than I could make myself but also often cost less than even the material I would have to purchase (thinking of items involving 'castings' mostly) . Anyone who wants something better will have to be prepared to make those improvements themselves – not impossible, just time consuming. Personally, I generally don't need to work to microns – although I'm sure some here do – and most of my Chinese 'bits' are perfectly good enough for my needs.

However, I do agree that as standards of living rises across China, India and other (currently) low-wage societies – that the cost of the machinery and tools they send us will go up too.

Regards,

IanT

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Maybe the way the early posts in this thread look so bitter and exaggerated now is because things really have got better, but I think they were already a lot better than that in 2010.

Back in the 60s and 70s, a few cars would get past 100,000 miles but not many. Most were failing MoTs or breaking down badly/frequently by 70 or 80k. Nowadays many or most cars will get to 200k easily.

And there are plenty of other examples of consumer products like washing machines and dishwashers becoming much more reliable, especially with the abandonment of electromechanical control systems in favour of electronic.

A bit over 2 years ago I replaced my Myford lathe with a Chinese machine at about a third of the new price of the last Myfords. It's far more capable in several ways than the Myford was, most of the things that have gone wrong with it have been my own fault, and so far I've been able to fix all of them.

Far more serious IMO is the issue of how you square the fact that machine-made and robot-assembled products are so much more consistent and reliable than human-made, with the fact that people need creative jobs they can be proud of.

[brickyParticipant @bricky]

Hornsby of Grantham built a successful tracked vehicle mounted with an internal combustion engine. They tried to sell this to the war department to tow guns before the first world war .This was rejected by the cavalry generals.Hornsby sold the track design to Holt who subsiquentley sold it to Catapiller.There has always been a lack of investment in our industry.

Frank

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Martin W on 12/11/2010 12:45:01:

Hi Terry

 

Only if you are looking at it through rose tinted glasses .

 

Martin

Now that's another thing. Has anyone else noticed that new spectacles these days seem to last one to two years before the "special scratchproof coating" on the lenses starts to bubble and discolour and you have to go and buy new glasses? None of the shops today seem to allow you to buy new lenses for your old glasses, you have to buy the whole frame and lens package. Planned obsolescence obviously. And I am sure the rose tinted lenses are no exception

[Barnaby WildeParticipant @barnabywilde70941]

Posted by Mike Poole on 25/08/2017 15:06:35:

Triumph are one of the biggest sellers in the uk and mostly made here.

Mike

http://www.mcia.co.uk/Press-and-Statistics/NewReg_Statistics.aspx

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

" None of the shops today seem to allow you to buy new lenses for your old glasses, you have to buy the whole frame and lens package. "

Need to change your Optician Hopper, SWTSMBO's is only too happy to change lenses in her frames but Styles change. Wonder what Harrison would make of todays throw away accurate timepieces.

Regards Ian.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Mark P. on 12/11/2010 20:44:26:

Hi all, I really didn't think that I would get this much reaction,but maybe an OT forum would go down well.It seems to work on other sites that I use these are mainly motorcycle based,and they seem popular with the users.

Regards to all Pailo.

We have the Tea Room for 'OT' threads!

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Hopper on 26/08/2017 01:17:31:

Posted by Martin W on 12/11/2010 12:45:01:

Hi Terry

 

Only if you are looking at it through rose tinted glasses .

 

Martin

Now that's another thing. Has anyone else noticed that new spectacles these days seem to last one to two years before the "special scratchproof coating" on the lenses starts to bubble and discolour and you have to go and buy new glasses?

Yes!

Remove the coating with armour-etch and get another year out of your specs, or at least keep them for spare

[Author]

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