Why did you do that ?

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Rhetorical question really and I'm sure I could do with following my own advise too on occasion.

With the almost instantaneous access most of us have to data sheets and other information on the web. How come we so easily just blunder in and do something before we know what we are dealing with. Particularly with materials or processes we have not handled before. It only takes a minute to look things up. Fore-warned is fore-armed and can avoid some nasty consequences. It can also makes things more interesting and produce better outcomes too.

regards Martin

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

& i suppose you are one of those poor sad old fells that RTFM before buggering it up.

It is what being a bloke is all about—– especially if the wife is watching!!

Definitely lacking in testosterone

Edited By Sam Longley 1 on 22/08/2016 13:14:33

Edited By Sam Longley 1 on 22/08/2016 13:16:10

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

I am not for a moment saying don't do stuff. Just that it's so easy to find out information before wading in.

Then wade in with some intellegence. Several occasions I've done just that and then thought why didn't I find out before I started. So Sam I am not some sad old fella thank you very much.

Martin

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

There do seem to be a lot of people who are incapable of using search engines so the availability of info online doesn't help.

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Bazyle,

Then they ask here how it should be done

Brian

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

If we all took lots of time to work out exactly what to do, with what and in what order, and then did exactly as planned, then our scrap boxes would never contain enough nearly-right bits or totally-wrong bits to help with the next project.

Tim

[Enough!Participant @enough]

So Sam I am not some sad old fella thank you very much.

See …. what Sam did there was he just waded in without searching out the netiquette first and including a smiley or winky with his answer.

Oh, before I forget . . . .

[Geoff GParticipant @geoffg]

It's not always beneficial to 'read the manual' before embarking on a project. In 1962, when we were 19, my girlfriend and I pooled our meagre resources (£300), bought a piece of land and started building a bungalow. We moved into the unfinished property six years later and still live there. Fortunately, I was a teenager and so knew everthing! By the time I was old enough to realise that I actually knew nothing, it was too late and we were well on the way to completion.

Had I left it a few years and understood the difficulties, problems and volume of work invloved, I would probably never have started. So, Guys, while some knowledge is clearly essential, just don't over-do it or you will frighten yourself and not start anything. Whatever you want to do, just pitch in and learn what you need as you go. Works for me – then, on the building site and now, in the workshop!

Certainly I did some things wrong and others could have been done better, but it has stood the test of time and at age 26, we had somewhere to live and no mortgage. Ignorance rules!

Geoff G

[Martin CottrellParticipant @martincottrell21329]

I've always found hindsight a more reliable predictor of future outcomes than foresight. Still doesn't stop me occasionally making the same mistakes again though! At that point I will usually ask myself the same rhetorical question as Martin Kyte, "Why did you do that??"

Martin.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

OK. Perhaps I didn't explain myself too clearly. Most of the time, most of us can see what to do and how. I'm not really talking about 'reading the manual' my comment was comment was prompted by the filing of niobium magnets with the resultant sparks as illustrated on another thread. In this day and age no one need be in ignorance of material properties as it's all there on the web. A couple of minutes online and you have all the info you need and you can then make informed choices as to how to proceed, whether it is appropriate cutting speeds or tool geometry to anything toxic to look out for. That in my mind is normal engineering.

We learn from mistakes, but who says they have to be our own mistakes.

regards Martin

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

There's another.

Niobium is a different element – it is not Neodymium!

[Nick HulmeParticipant @nickhulme30114]

Posted by Martin Kyte on 22/08/2016 12:34:45:

Rhetorical question really and I'm sure I could do with following my own advise too on occasion.

With the almost instantaneous access most of us have to data sheets and other information on the web. How come we so easily just blunder in and do something before we know what we are dealing with.

We use our skill, judgement and experience to assess a situation and act accordingly.

The trick is to be able to identify situations where you "Don't Know", if you're unable to do this and know it you should read a few books before you do anything, if you think you can do this when you cannot there's no hope for you and you will accumulate "Boxes of Bits" and possibly injuries throughout your life.

The comforting part is that the world is designed around those who "Don't Know" so there are guards on machines to stop idiots sticking their hand in a press, even so occasionally a "Better Idiot" comes along and frigs the switch on a door in order to be able to put his hand into live tooling 😀

Having used dangerous machinery all my working life and still being able to count to ten with my socks on I count myself skilled and judgemental

– Nick

[mark costello 1Participant @markcostello1]

I know that much can be learned by RTFM. But I believe You can learn much more by NOT RTFM. Some of it You may not want right then. How many discoveries were made "by chance and by golly."

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Universal Instruction Manual to be used by senior management:

Press all the buttons at random, if that doesn't work it must be faulty.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Always remember:

"Experience allows you to recognise the mistake the next time that you make it"

Part of learning something new each day!

Howard

[An OtherParticipant @another21905]

Isn't this 'statistics and lies'? – what about all the people who happily work away without posting their every error on some forum or other?.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by An Other on 19/09/2016 18:45:36:

Isn't this 'statistics and lies'? – what about all the people who happily work away without posting their every error on some forum or other?.

People who happily work away without posting their every error on some forum or other are known unknowns.

This is "known unknowns", as in "Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know. "

It's good to have a sense of humour!

I think you're right though. There must be loads of people out there quietly doing good stuff.

Dave

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by Bandersnatch on 22/08/2016 16:48:00:

So Sam I am not some sad old fella thank you very much.

See …. what Sam did there was he just waded in without searching out the netiquette first and including a smiley or winky with his answer.

Oh, before I forget . . . .

If the OP needed a smiley to realise that my reply was in total jest then he is definitely " sad"

But I very much doubt it somehow

Oh & for the record —— —-there!!! does that get me out of trouble?

[Ian WelfordParticipant @ianwelford58739]

To answer the original posting title BECAUSE I COULD

Often find inspiration from you lot on line or by consulting the Oracle's of Mad modder if the answer isn't immediately available.

Never let SWMBO know you're infallible ! She may suspect it but absolute denial is one of the strongest male traits and should be deployed whenever challenged by senior management.

[Roger HeadParticipant @rogerhead16992]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 19/09/2016 20:21:25:

This is "known unknowns", as in "Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know. "

Dave, were you a scriptwriter for "Yes Minister" ?

Roger

[Perko7Participant @perko7]

I guess that since we have 'known unknowns' and 'unknown unknowns' it naturally follows that we also have 'unknown knowns' , meaning the things we do instinctively without realising it, being things we 'know' but don't actually recognise that we 'know' them.

In my previous employment, which involved some elements of risk management, all the above terms were regularly used.

Sir Humphrey would have been well pleased….

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Roger Head on 20/09/2016 00:59:29:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 19/09/2016 20:21:25:

This is "known unknowns", as in "Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know. "

Dave, were you a scriptwriter for "Yes Minister" ?

Roger

No, but – confession time – I was a Civil Servant . I was In charge of scraping the black bits off King Alfred's cakes.

The quote is from Donald Rumsfeld but as Geoff Perkins 1 commented, the jargon and logic is real.

I thought 'Yes Minister' was non-fiction. For example, Sir Humphrey's list of excuses is authentic:

• There's a perfectly satisfactory explanation but it cannot be revealed for security reasons
• Budget cuts overstretched our ability to deliver
• It was a worthwhile experiment from which valuable data was obtained
• It occurred before important facts were known and it won't happen again
• It was caused by the unfortunate lapse of an individual

There's a new fudge about that's widely used by both government and commerce to defuse embarrassment. For example, if your company is exposed as a gross bunch of Dickensian slave-drivers your PR department just says something worthy but meaningless like "Our policy fully supports the rights and ambitions of our workers. Our staff prefer the flexibility of zero hours contracts". It often works because the press soon move on and let you off the hook.

Cheers,

Dave

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