Why Column gear shift

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Hi Chaps

Question for the older of us and motor vehicle experts of all ages.

Nattering with my 2 mates last night, the conversation turned to 50's and 60's cars. The consensus was that many if not most had column gear shifts. The question arose as to why?. Surely the linkages would be more complex than a lever on the floor. From various memories (dodgy I know) it didn't seem to correlate to bench seats. The only real suggestion was that it was a hangover from the old vertical steering column on early cars which were often adorned with several levers including advance/retard and the car industry were wary of being accused of committing an "innovation" being a fairly conservative lot.

We would be interested in opinions.

regards Martin

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

[clogsParticipant @clogs]

Hi all,

always thought it was to get nearer to ur "Honey"……..hahaha…….

Mk2 Consul's and Zephyer's…….they were the days…..

clogs………..

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Yes, I do remember column gear shifts, but only ever drove one, and that was an old van owned by my cousin. Forget the make, possibly a Jowett, but it was a 3 speed. Other than that all other vehicles I've driven were floor mounted – some direct to the gearbox, some so-called remote gear lever. Most vehicles were in the Morris Commercial range from the "Z" type, "J" type, Minivan, Morris Minor vans and occasionally the 30cwt & 1ton vans.

The "J" type was odd, the gear lever being behind you so in effect you couldn't see when changing gear.

Other than that, my parents had a "sit-up & beg" Ford Prefect dating from 1959, my uncle had a pre-war Ford Anglia and a Ford Popular dating from the mid-50's. All of these were floor mounted.

I've a sneaky suspicion that one of the larger Fords, Consul perhaps from either the late '50's or possibly very early '60's was column change.

As to why, as you say, probably more complex linkage. The Consul above had a bench seat, that I do remember, and I've a sneaky suspicion that the Jowett van might have been bench. All the other vehicles mentioned were individual seats.

A good topic to cogitate over during my mornings walk!

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

[Brian O’ConnorParticipant @brianoconnor49474]

Column gear change went along with a bench front seat so that you could get three people in the front (pre-safety belt days!).

B

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Martin,

I think you may have been a little premature in dismissing the bench-seat connection.

Most of the cars in question would, I think, have had an option to specify bench seats; or would have had a closely related model which did.

Design standardisation was much more cost-effective in those days than it is on the current 'pick & mix' production lines.

MichaelG.

.

[quote]

From various memories (dodgy I know) it didn't seem to correlate to bench seats. 

[/quote]

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 28/11/2017 09:24:56

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

My Opel Kapitan had column shift and 3 forward gears, bench seats as well. The gear lever was a bit wobbly but was ok, the engine was a straight 6 cyl. quite economical at 33 mpg. Maybe the engines then were long stroke engines then? not over square like todays engines No electronics and very easy to repair. 6 volt electrics. The main fault was the clutch lever system, pivoted on plastic bushes they soon abraded being exposed to the road dust etc. Easily changed and cost pennies..

Unlike the Triumph herald I had for 9 months where I was able to push the gear lever through the extension over the gearbox leaving it dangling in space!

The 95/96 series of SAAB, again steering column change but, a freewheel lever which meant clutchless gear changes.(You definitely had to engage the free wheel in snow and ice) Would go happily through 12" of snow!

With the advent of 5 and 6 gearboxes I think the gearstick had to be more rigid and the power output of modern engines are in a narrower output curve so the gear shift needs to be precise!

Bear in mind todays cars are mostly now FWD and maybe transverse engines which creates a whole new configuration of layout for the controls. So gear levers need to be fitted as an extension from further forward in the engine compartment!

Clive

Edited By Clive Hartland on 28/11/2017 09:29:10

Edited By Clive Hartland on 28/11/2017 09:29:36

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Column changers were even more "fun" when the many bushes etc were worn, rather like a lottery as to which gear you actually got, especially on a four speed box!

Mind you bench seats had their advantages!

Edited By V8Eng on 28/11/2017 09:31:01

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

I owned a Bedford CA Dormobile camper for several years, It like the other Bedford CA was fitted with column gear changes, it was also fitted with a drivers seat and a double bench and half the engine was in the cab so there was no room for a floor mounted gear stick, even the handbrake was mounted on the right side of the drivers seat.

Martin P

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

My father's 1953 Hillman Minx had a bench front seat and column change – I remember from my childhood.

[michael pottsParticipant @michaelpotts88182]

Or ! Once on my Austin Metropolitan I managed to select two gears at once. Luckily I noticed and managed to deselect the original gear and start again.

Mike Potts

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 28/11/2017 09:21:53:

Martin,

I think you may have been a little premature in dismissing the bench-seat connection.

Most of the cars in question would, I think, have had an option to specify bench seats; or would have had a closely related model which did.

Design standardisation was much more cost-effective in those days than it is on the current 'pick & mix' production lines.

MichaelG.

.

[quote]

From various memories (dodgy I know) it didn't seem to correlate to bench seats.

[/quote]

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 28/11/2017 09:24:56

Well not dismissed exactly. No apparent correlation doesn't mean that there isn't one, just means we couldn't see it by what we could remember. The suggestion that bench seats wouldbe retained as an option even if not fitted is sound logic and may or may not be pertinant. Maybe some examples of variants could be offered if anyone knows.

regards Martin

Edited By Martin Kyte on 28/11/2017 09:37:17

[Ian ParkinParticipant @ianparkin39383]

With the advent of fly by wire systems they may be making a comeback my wife's B class mercedes has a stalk for the gear selection (P,R,N,D )as well as flappy paddles

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

I've always assumed that column shifts are Americanisms. Don't know why. Possibly due to being given rides to school in a Zephyr (I think). Whatever it was, the styling came straight from Cape Canaveral and Fireball XL5! The other thing I remember from my childhood is most cars had holes in the floor.

Dave

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Maybe it was just the USA influence which waxed and wained?

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

The Austin A60 Cambridge and the Morris Oxford were the same basic car but the A60 had separate seats and floor change and the Morris had column change and bench seat. Both cars had the handbrake to the right of the drivers seat.

Mike

[larry PhelanParticipant @larryphelan54019]

I had two Nissan vans in the 1980,s,both of them were column changers,never gave any bother,but then,I began with a Renault 4 The next van was also a Nissan,but with a floor gearstick,which unscrewed itself while I was driving home from the Dealer! so much for "Pre delivery inspection". The fact that I was in heavy traffic at the time did not help much. Since then,I have been driving Hi Aces with no problems. As some one said,the increase in the number of gears may have had a lot to do with it.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Martin Kyte on 28/11/2017 09:35:08:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 28/11/2017 09:21:53:

Martin,

I think you may have been a little premature in dismissing the bench-seat connection.

Well not dismissed exactly. No apparent correlation doesn't mean that there isn't one, just means we couldn't see it by what we could remember. The suggestion that bench seats wouldbe retained as an option even if not fitted is sound logic and may or may not be pertinant. Maybe some examples of variants could be offered if anyone knows.

.

Apologies, Martin … there was no accusation intended

Regarding 'candidate' exemplars: From memory, you might want to consider variations on the Hillman Minx theme.

MichaelG.

.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillman_Minx#Audax_design_Hillman_Minx_.28Series_I_to_Series_VI.2C_1956.E2.80.9367.29

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunbeam_Rapier

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 28/11/2017 10:05:10

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

You think it is only 50-60s? Some tractors in the 80-90s (and possibly later) had column gear changes. That would be eight, not three or four forward gears. We called them the 'Rubic Cube' gear change!

Moggie minors never had column change, neither did cortinas, amongst others, back in the day of the colum change. Bench seats and the idea imported from the US were likely the reasons.

Edit to add: forward control vans, etc., needed 4hem as the box was a bit remote and no real space for a floor stick – Ford Consul van was a pain, but it was warm to sit over the engine.

Edited By not done it yet on 28/11/2017 10:06:17

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

I think column shift was considered more modern too. Just a fashion thing. It probably went along with the "new" automatic transmission models that had a column mounted selector. — except the ones with the push buttons on the dash, remember them?

Also, the old stick shifts were great big long throw things that you really had to "stir the pot" with. ISTR our old Austin A40 had a monster long gear lever that Mum hated. The column shifts were less movement (when new!) and so maybe more user friendly, specially for the growing number of lady drivers?

When stick shifts became the more modern short levers, like the Triumph Herald's, they were back in fashion again as "sporty" and column shifts were old hat for family wagons. Mum loved her Herald.

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

I seem to remember that some cars of the period had rather large transmision tunnels, maybe a floor shift would have been too close to the drivers left ear.

I am remembering 'Umbrella Handle' type Handbrakes as well now, often in the parcel tray area.

Edited By V8Eng on 28/11/2017 10:17:50

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Perhaps there was a theory that floor-shift drivers would take their eyes further from the road when selecting? I remember that among the primary school kids I ran around with in the 50s, floor shifts were regarded as a bit old-fashioned.

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

Posted by V8Eng on 28/11/2017 10:16:31:

I seem to remember that some cars of the period had rather large transmision tunnels, maybe a floor shift would have been too close to the drivers left ear.

I am remembering 'Umbrella Handle' type Handbrakes as well now, often in the parcel tray area.

Edited By V8Eng on 28/11/2017 10:17:50

Exactly the opposite on many cars though, with the shift mechanism down by the driver's feet the lever was about two feet long with a commensurately long travel, frequently cranked so far that the H was almost vertical. Until the sportier remote floor shifts became popular, bringing the gear lever closer to the driver, column shift was the upmarket alternative.

Brian

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

The place for the gear lever ( and handbrake) for cars that real men drove was outside.

Russell

[geoff walker 1Participant @geoffwalker1]

Column shift was great for changing drivers without stopping the car.

My mate had a vauxhall with column shift. On the long runs to Uni in the late 60's he would partially stand up at the wheel, I would slide across the bench seat into the drivers side and he would step across into the passenger side.

Easy peasy, just slow down to 30 while you make the change.

Long time ago when we were all a bit crazy, well I was!

geoff

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