Who trains these ideots?

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

so several people called to quote….I just want it replacing with a similar one…..why cant anyone understand this simple concept……I dont want to change to a combi, I dont want to replace my 12kw item with a whopping 40kw item….i'm seriously thinking of retraining because if everyone elses experience is like mine there must be one heck of a market for it!

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Right with you Fizzy.

We are still running our 1973 boiler Eventually, something will fail which will condemn it.

The clock failed annualy until replaced by an old, ex lampost Venner timeswitch still giving 40+ years of troublefree service. The thermostat has been replaced once, and thermocouples seem to have a life of about six years. But all simple fixes. Thermocouples are the most annoying because of the lack of durability.

WHY?

Cast iron, so has outlasted any sheet steel pressed heat exchanger. Am prepared to trade off longevity against efficiency, especially in view of our limited use.

Don't want a combi either. Have heard too may tales of woe from folk with them (D and SIL have had problem within the last ten years or so, ranging from a staged rebuild, through to total replacement.

Which seems to prove my point ).

Howard

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

My employers apprentice scheme has been running for 100 years. They pick the best of many applicants and it dosn't matter if you are going to be a fitter, designer, mechanical or electrical, the course is the same They all do hand fitting and time in the design office, commercial and shop floor as well as college. Our chief engineer started as an apprentice.

Not all schemes are the same.

[roy entwistleParticipant @royentwistle24699]

Who was it, who said " Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. "

[Steve PaveyParticipant @stevepavey65865]

Posted by roy entwistle on 19/08/2020 17:35:28:

Who was it, who said " Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. "

Someone who has never tried teaching, obviously.

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by Steve Pavey on 19/08/2020 17:53:00:

Posted by roy entwistle on 19/08/2020 17:35:28:

Who was it, who said " Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. "

Someone who has never tried teaching, obviously.

That is very true. Teaching well is depressingly undervalued skill. And you don't need to be a world class expert in something to teach beginners the basics.

[larneyinParticipant @larneyin]

And those who can't teach teach teachers!

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by larneyin on 19/08/2020 19:51:03:

And those who can't teach teach teachers!

Then there's those who can't be taught anything. They become government Ministers…..

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

Thanks NW1 , you finally answered the original question.

Now, what's the solution to that ?

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

30 years ago I was working in a defence establishment.

One of the office PC's had a dodgy 3.5" floppy drive, so a replacement was requested.

Young bloke (contract repair company) arrived and replaced the floppy drive but it did not work. The green light was on continuously.

Out of curiosity I asked the young bloke how much per hour was this repair costing the Defence Department and he replied $120. Then I asked him his hourly rate, it was $12 (Au).

So then I told him that the data connector ribbon cable was plugged in upside down, hence the green light.

He left with a red face after rectifying the problem, but I actually think that I taught him something about floppy disk drives.

Nowadays. 30 years later, $120 p/h is still a decent wage if you can get it.

* Danny M *

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posts questioning the spelling of ideocy in the heading have been deleted so the moaning can continue uninterrupted? Really?

Edited By Hopper on 20/08/2020 11:39:10

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

Posted by roy entwistle on 19/08/2020 17:35:28:

Who was it, who said " Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. "

George Bernard Shaw. I am tempted to add "and those who can't do either, recycle old chestnuts from George Bernard Shaw".

I am very much more in tune with Reg Routledge, former MCC coach, who said "The most gifted players don't make the best coaches. These are the people who have had to work least at their own game: who've had to think about it less. It stands to reason they will be less able to help others. Denis Compton, for example, was the most talented batsman I ever played with. But I would not let him teach my dog how to cock his leg."

The best lecturer I ever had was not the one who wrote erudite and incomprehensible text-books, but a hard-working chap who not only knew his stuff, he knew how to learn it, because he had had to do so himself.

I believe that one of my strengths as a teacher was not my first-class degree (which I haven't got – I just managed to scrape an 'ordinary' ) but my ability to explain and demonstrate things clearly, in different ways if necessary, until the light dawned. I'm sure my practical background before becoming a teacher helped. Sadly, this ability wasn't valued in the current educational system because I wasn't a whizz at administrative paperwork, and wouldn't roll over and die when the head told me to. But that's a different story.

George B.

edited to remove infuriating 'smiley' added by the system

Edited By Georgineer on 20/08/2020 13:24:22

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

In my young day elders were all wise, good humoured and kind. Far better quality than today's second-rate Meldrew impersonators. Let's face it, even old people have gone to the dogs.

Everything these days is complete rubbish, including me!

Dave

[PlasmaParticipant @plasma]

There was a great piece on Radio 4 this morning about decision making in government and management etc.

It basically said the more members a committee had and the more experts, the worse its results would be.

Civil servants create ever larger departments to gain more control, kudos and income.

The colonies office was quite small when we had a lot of colonies, as we lost them the department grew and grew and ended up being a huge set up with nothing to do but waste money.

If you can find it on i player it's worth a listen.

Mick

[PlasmaParticipant @plasma]

oh it also spoke about the bane of my professional life; MEETINGS

They said 80% of people in 80% of meetings were doing nothing constructive at all, just wasting time.

And meetings beget meetings, requiring pre-meetings to discuss what will be on the agenda for the actual meeting.

And nothing actually ever comes from all these meetings, its just somewhere to store the managers so they are not under the workers feet.

Mick

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Plasma on 20/08/2020 16:34:16:

[…]

They said 80% of people in 80% of meetings were doing nothing constructive at all, just wasting time.

 

.

Aagghh !! The dreaded cliché of the Pareto Principle

MichaelG.

.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle

 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 20/08/2020 16:44:28

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Pithy quotations have a remarkable way of passing on other peoples biased opinions. If you are good at something you have something to teach, if you are really good at something you may just be capable of passing it on. Thats not a quote just my observation. Shaw's quotation is surely a comment on how we select teachers.

Anyway back in the day if you were not a productive tradesman you wound up as a Foreman just to get you out of the way.

regards Martin

Edited By Martin Kyte on 20/08/2020 16:58:12

[egaParticipant @ega]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 20/08/2020 16:44:04:

.

Aagghh !! The dreaded cliché of the Pareto Principle

MichaelG.

.

IIRC, it all started when he discovered that 80% of the land in Italy was owned by 20% of the people. But the 80/20 split does seem to crop up quite a bit.

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by bricky on 18/08/2020 18:42:37:

At the Midland Model Engineering show at Doddington Park I was having my lunch when a fellow enthusiast sat at my table.He had travelled to the show from Germany ,we had a good chat and when he said there is one thing wrong with British industries I thought here we go.He said the worst thing that Britain did was to dilute the best apprenticeship sceme in the world and all your industries have suffered because of it.How right he was and is.I served 6 years as a bricklayer subsequent years were reduced until they were starting from useless college courses at 17 and out of there time at 19 effectivly 2 years,one cannot gain the experience in that time .Sorry about the rant but I do feel strongly about this problem.

Frank

What experience? If you can lay bricks where is the experience? I can mix my own muck & lay 350 facings a day on a half b wall with no training whatsoever. Bricklaying is not rocket science & if one is just laying block walls or skins of hollow walls in cottage whalloping then 2 years is more than enough. We have a brick layer in the house opposite to us who built his own house. The place looks a disaster with curly chimney, quoined reveals & more brick features that one can throw a stick at. But in the end it is the only one in the village. Proves nothing other than he can do flash brickwork. If the job only demands easy brickwork, why waste time to learn the skills never needed?

Edited By Sam Longley 1 on 20/08/2020 17:42:55

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

s am longley, IF the job only demands easy brickwork , what IF the job demands something other than the easy stretcher bond ? or even Granite ? 350 Facers per day thats only 5 barrows worth. Now try taking that up 7 storeys and see how PLUMB you can get it. Maybe you should try a corbelled arch or 2 No on second thoughts… just stick to stretcher bond.

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by Raymond Anderson on 20/08/2020 18:02:47:

s am longley, IF the job only demands easy brickwork , what IF the job demands something other than the easy stretcher bond ? or even Granite ? 350 Facers per day thats only 5 barrows worth. Now try taking that up 7 storeys and see how PLUMB you can get it. Maybe you should try a corbelled arch or 2 No on second thoughts… just stick to stretcher bond.

Funny you should mention arches. My first house, that I built myself,had an arch way 2.7 metres wide & 5 metres long, all in brickwork. It was a design necessitated by the fact that the house was on the high street & vehicles had to pass through

I won the European Architectural Heritage Year Award for that House, when I was in my early 20's

My next award was for a community centre built on to the end of a very old village church many years later.

I never served an apprenticeship, but employed quite a few. I never had them sweeping floors & wasting time making tea if I could help it. I employed others for that task. My attitude was that they were there to learn the trade, not how to make tea. They did have to understand the need for tidiness in the workplace though.

 

Edited By Sam Longley 1 on 20/08/2020 18:19:57

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Plasma on 20/08/2020 16:31:01:

There was a great piece on Radio 4 this morning about decision making in government and management etc.

It basically said the more members a committee had and the more experts, the worse its results would be.

Civil servants create ever larger departments to gain more control, kudos and income.

The colonies office was quite small when we had a lot of colonies, as we lost them the department grew and grew and ended up being a huge set up with nothing to do but waste money.

If you can find it on i player it's worth a listen.

Mick

Parkinson is quite amusing, but look closer and his examples aren't always fit for purpose. He remarked on the stupidity of having more admirals than ships after WW1, but the reason is quite simple: warships were complicated then and they are far more complicated now. The extra admirals weren't there to operate ships, they were responsible for maintaining them in the widest sense and planning future warships. Not easy: warships are stuffed full of advanced technology, requiring trained men to operate them, and what to do next is in continual flux in response to what the other guy is doing. Global power-projection is a complicated business. You don't put a tea-boy in charge of procuring reactors and turbine sets for nuclear submarines, and submarines have several other equally complicated components.

Even when it was relevant, the Colonial Office was lightly loaded because 'Colonies' more-or-less self-governed within the British framework. Direct rule from London was unusual, more a matter of agreeing policy and resolving disputes than hands on management. However, when independence came, the Colonial Office was responsible for sorting out all the details. At the end of the empire there was a lot of extra work to do. Brexit has the same problem in spades; I hope no-one expected it to produce economies.

Parkinson is spot on with his description of a Board of Directors nodding through approval of a mega-expensive investment in a risky new works, and then the rest of the day discussing refreshments. Parkinson explains this happens because most Directors don't understand new plant, risks, or the inner workings of their business, but they all know how to make coffee. No-one risks looking foolish asking about big complicated decisions they don't understand, but everyone has a strong political opinion about giving the workforce free chocolate biscuits!

Dave

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 20/08/2020 18:24:42

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by Raymond Anderson on 20/08/2020 18:02:47:

s am longley, IF the job only demands easy brickwork , what IF the job demands something other than the easy stretcher bond ? or even Granite ? 350 Facers per day thats only 5 barrows worth. Now try taking that up 7 storeys and see how PLUMB you can get it. Maybe you should try a corbelled arch or 2 No on second thoughts… just stick to stretcher bond.

I cannot find Brickkies original post & i should hasten to add that I was not trying to belittle the art of bricklaying. What I do find wrong is the attitude that we need to spend years doing appreticeships when they are not always necessary.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

In "Memoirs of a Fox Hunting Man", A G Street's father said that two boys would do half the work of one boy, and three would do nothing at all.

One of the jokes circulating at work was "Meetings, the alternative to work"

There was one manager who did nothing but run meetings, issue minutes and "send Exocets". For a while I had the misfortune to work for him. But who did he need when things got technical?

My wife was a primary school teacher. In between animal training, she managed to fit in a little teaching. And the longer she was in the profession, the worse things, and the parents, got! (She taught in north London, Sussex and in many schools in East Anglia, so it was not localised )

One of her colleagues was actually pushed violently up against a wall by a parent.

One who complained that her child was being picked on, accepted an invitation to sit in for half a day. Leaving she said "Now i see how it is" and complained no more.

What was said about walking a mile in the other man's shoes?

Howard

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by Howard Lewis on 20/08/2020 19:13:44:

My wife was a primary school teacher. In between animal training, she managed to fit in a little teaching. And the longer she was in the profession, the worse things, and the parents, got! (She taught in north London, Sussex and in many schools in East Anglia, so it was not localised )

One of her colleagues was actually pushed violently up against a wall by a parent.

Howard

Back in the 90's I had a contract to fit screens in 17 schools in Thurrock in the main reception areas . These were to restrict parents from entering the schools & attacking the staff. Alarms were also installed to call more staff in difficult situations. The events were, apparently, very common & some staff lived in fear of attack from aggressive parents as well as children. I was building a school alongside another school in East Tilbury & witnessed a child of about 10/11 actually attack a teacher & it was a surprisingly violent incident & he was punching the teacher in the face.

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