Who trains these ideots?

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

Came home to no hot water. Calls qualidied, experienced plumber who diagnoses issue before hes even been to see the boiler. Orders new part, arrives and fits it…nothing. Then does a bit of investigating and finds no spark – need to order new coil pack and it will be expensive! These coil packs are almost identical to those fitted to modern cars which operate under severe conditions and rarely fail, whilst ours has produced maybe 100 sparks in its lifetime. Logic tells me its not likely to be the coil especially as a failed spark wouldnt have caused a shutdown in the first place -I put meter on input and zero volts, so its never likely to work. Have a quick look at pcb and its propper toast so a new pcb is needed (burned beyond repair), Now given that ive never so much as looked at a domestic boiler in detail before and that it took me less than 5 minutes to diagnose the problem how are people like my so called plumber allowed out of the house? He will of course want paying for the call out and replacing a perfectly working part and if I hadnt taken a look myself would today be fitting an even more expensive part to replace the fully functioning one….would he even have got to the pcb? Am I obliged to pay for something which in no way fixed the problem? I despair, I really do. Told him all this, he advises a new boiler at £1800….alternative is new pcb at over £200 which comes with a 1 year warranty….. A quick google and I can get a recon unit with 12 month warranty for £34….

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

[Brian OldfordParticipant @brianoldford70365]

I know how I would respond when his bill arrives and my bank balance wouldn't alter. If he argues SYIC.

[Stuart BridgerParticipant @stuartbridger82290]

Sounds like plumber is his job description, not boiler service technician or whatever they are called.
Maybe experienced in wet stuff, but not electrons.
Seriously though, what a terrible experience. I would not pay him as he clearly is not skilled enough to carry out the task. Is he an employee or a one man band?

[Bob n AboutParticipant @bobnabout]

All too common these days with joke apprenticeship programs and lack of in depth training. Not many seem taught to think for themselves logically. Add to that major corporations not wanting you to own the products you buy. Pretty much a perfect storm for consumers, certainly going to get worse until we get right to repair sorted. Many untrained people are doing a better job than so called “Professionals”

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

One man band but with 20 years experience…….obviously not with boilers!

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

Ho, hum. Glass houses and stones – it would be exceedingly churlish if anyone asked about teaching them to spell, I suppose.

Tim

Edited By Tim Stevens on 18/08/2020 12:06:48

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

I assume this is a gas boiler, from your mention of coils and sparks. If so, he must be 'gas safe' qualified before he does anything to it. Is he?

George B.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Is he one of the below, or above, average plumber? Below if he doesn’t know how to do his job , or above if he knows how to ‘fleece’ the below average customer.

Unfortunate for him that he has been found out, either way, by you. Well done. I always try to diagnose the problem, before calling on the experts. You should certainly not have to pay for work improperly carried out.

A bit like cars. Most dealerships will only fit new parts from the maker, many non-dealership repairers will only fit parts sourced by themselves. A relatively few will do the repair ‘as requested’.

My local dealership is quite good – one example was £450 for a new drive shaft (without fitting) for a £1.39 reluctor ring that was cracked; another was 2 new injectors at £250 each v. 2 good second hand ones for £70; yet another was a common rail pump for £600 (?) new v. a good used pump for £50.

The boss was amazed when he found the price of an electric window winder kit was £18 while one (with his car maker’s name on it) was £169! Likely those ‘new’ prices were exclusive of VAT as well.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Genuine parts keep the Dealership and the Manufacturer living in luxury.

Once, we found that a manufacturer of "spurious" spares was producing a better product than we were buying from our normal industry supplier!

We did find others who were producing spares incorporating a defect that we had developed out!

In this case, the plumber was being paid for his technical expertise. Since it was woefully lacking, he was in breach of contract, so should be amenable (if he has any sense ) to negotiating the price downwards to a mutually acceptable level.

Or you could offset your charge for technical advice against his bill?

Howard

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by fizzy on 18/08/2020 11:23:14:

Calls qualidied, experienced plumber who diagnoses issue before hes even been to see the boiler.

Is it worth asking at this point whether he will guarantee that his proposed solution will actually fix the problem before going ahead and spending (your) money? In any case it might be interesting to hear his response.

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Orange light came on on dash, "Drive CAREFULLY to main dealer." "Has it been serviced?" No, "Ahh, it's twelve months old, what's the mileage?" 2130 (yes, four digits only) "Err it must be the pollen filter needs changing". Despite no air conditioning fitted to the Sandero, it seems they fit a filter to the heater outlet.

It's going in tomorrow for "Filter change" and at my request oil and oil filter change, these are changed at twelve months no matter what.

Point of posting? Isn't t'internet wonderful? It would appear that many other Dacia owners fall for the "Frighten the cr** out of the owners light" There is a mileage/timer "worm" loaded into the ECU that triggers at 12000 miles or twelve months whichever comes sooner "Take me back to my master" light.

After the "Service" but BEFORE the card goes into the "Pay Here" slot, there WILL be a discussion.

I don't wonder BS motors proudly sponsor F!

Regards Ian.

Trust you're "Gas qualified" Fizzy? Sounds like you passed with honours if the original "Plumber" is anything to go by.

[Nigel BennettParticipant @nigelbennett69913]

Our plumber, on the other hand, is magnificent. We called him out a while ago because there was no heat in several radiators. He had a wander round, gazed hard at a section of floor in the landing and said, "It'll be there. Blocked up with magnetic particles." We pulled up the carpet to expose the floorboards, where many years ago I had drawn a circuit diagram of what pipes were underneath. We unscrewed a floorboard – I always use screws when I'm replacing floorboards over pipes. He pulled out a magnet – and it stuck to the copper pipe. Quick job with a hacksaw, blowtorch and some new fittings and bits of pipe and job's a good 'un. THAT'S what you pay a plumber for!

"Can I have a look at your engines now?" he asked when he'd finished…

[clogsParticipant @clogs]

I was always working away…so got the Brit Gas contract for service n repair for the whole hot water system…….

it did pay off when the hot water tank sprung a leak……

nice bloke, couldny do enough…perhaps the exception but we were happy overall……

[Bob WorsleyParticipant @bobworsley31976]

Ah, you forget, 10 years experience = 1 year repeated 10 times.

Like chimney sweeps, got to do it every year. Isn't the point of smokeless fuel that you don't get smoke to block the chimney?

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Because I cannot put my car in for service during term time and as it only does about 7000ml per year I routinely turn off the inspection light with a £15 code reader until I am able to get it in at my convenience. I have used 1½. tanks full of petrol since the middle of March so the annual service has been deferred.

There is a fault on the car which my garage (independent make specialist but not a dealer) assures me will have no long term affect on the engine and only a very occasional effect on fuel consumption but which triggers the engine warning light every few months, so this has been reset pending the next service when it will be attended to.

Cannot advise anyone else to do the same, but it works for me.

Edited By Nick Clarke 3 on 18/08/2020 16:31:18

[john fletcher 1Participant @johnfletcher1]

Similar story.

About 25 or more years ago a friend who had a Volvo estate car, and the rev counter failed. The dealer price was £75, another friend who worked for the local Lada dealer (remember Lada) said that is fitted in a Lada distributer. On checking it was, £28 in a Lada box, he showed me an old one. I recognised it in RS catalogue, as Hall effect device £2.80 from RS delivered in the post. My friend went back to the Volvo dealer with the rev counter now working and told them the story. The man said but you didn't a Volvo box and turned on his heals. John

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

What makes you think they are trained ?

Some years ago, around here, everyone who could hold a shovel was calling themselves a "Builder"

Their handiwork is on view for all to see. Strange to say, they are nowhere to be seen !

I suspect they did their "Training" building sand castles on the beach, knowing that the tide would cover up their efforts.

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

What makes you think they are trained ?

Some years ago, around here, everyone who could hold a shovel was calling themselves a "Builder"

Their handiwork is on view for all to see. Strange to say, they are nowhere to be seen !

I suspect they did their "Training" building sand castles on the beach, knowing that the tide would cover up their efforts.

[PlasmaParticipant @plasma]

A few years ago I went on a gas boiler course to get the certificate to allow me to install and repair said items.

I paid for it and wasn't a plumber but did know the basics.

I found the so called tradesmen to be the dumbest group of learners id ever encountered. Reading the Sun and talking about football was all they were ever interested in.

Calculation of friction within a system to establish the correct diameter of pipe to use? Sod that, just use 22mm everywhere.

Fault finding on a rigged test boiler? You have 45 minutes to complete the task… five minutes in I was done with a functioning boiler.

Examining an installation to find defective and dangerous elements such as blocked flu or unsheathed pipes? There are ten things to find, I found fifteen, one of which the examiners did not know was there.

I would say you can replace the board yourself. Its not a gas fitting, does not involve any pipe work and will not interfere with combustion. Its only like replacing a room stat.

Replacing the boiler is an idiots solution, find a better plumber, if there is such a thing these days.

By the way I never used the gas cert I obtained for £2000, I was too conscientious and would have not done things fast or cheap enough to satisfy a firm so I stayed with my old job.

Moan over.

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

I feel every trade is "Dumbing " down these days. When I served me time [ Bricklayer ] I did 5 years. Stone masons were 6 Years Joiners were 4, now it is 5 for Masons 4 for Bricklayers and 3 for Joiners . and it's not just the Structural trades even the services trades are dumbed down. You just need to look at the quality of tradesmen now compared to even 20 years ago . I see it every day.

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

Under the general terms of questioning those doing 'their' job I always remember this one.

The, 'at that time' , head of Bomber Command, Arthur Harris was stopped by a policeman and told " You could kill someone driving like that ".

His reply, " Young man, that's my job".

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

I needed a new boiler a few years ago & strangely enough British gas was offering a decent quote, I went with them not only because of the cost but if anything went wrong they would be big enough to fix it. Guess what it did go wrong on the first install & the numpties who did it just shrugged their shoulders!! Not to worry I gave their manager a right tongue lashing & all was fixed a week later.

The first 2 youngish 'engineers' were bloody useless, had no pride in their work, thought I was as stupid as them & were liars to boot, the fitter who put it right was 'old school'.

Tony

[brickyParticipant @bricky]

At the Midland Model Engineering show at Doddington Park I was having my lunch when a fellow enthusiast sat at my table.He had travelled to the show from Germany ,we had a good chat and when he said there is one thing wrong with British industries I thought here we go.He said the worst thing that Britain did was to dilute the best apprenticeship sceme in the world and all your industries have suffered because of it.How right he was and is.I served 6 years as a bricklayer subsequent years were reduced until they were starting from useless college courses at 17 and out of there time at 19 effectivly 2 years,one cannot gain the experience in that time .Sorry about the rant but I do feel strongly about this problem.

Frank

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

My daughter had a new bathroom suite installed, problem was that the soil pipe to toilet pan leaked, off the plumber went and got a super dooper loo connector – it still leaked. I had a look at the loo outlet and showed the plumber that the outlet wasn't round and that he had better get a replacement pan as it was never going to seal. Then he explained why he hadn't noticed the defect – "You see, I am really a heating engineer, not a plumber" Nuff said !

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