Whicht “Fonts” were used on th e Somerset & Dorset Joint Rlwy??

[Mike PalingParticipant @mikepaling69128]

Hi ..

I am thinking of producing my own wet-slide transfers/decals for my 3 1/2" Gauge Tich in the style of the SDJR but I am having difficulty identifying the actual font used on the sides of the original locos. I am particularly interested in the fonts with the nicely rounded "serif" …

Does anybody know what font was used?

Mike

[Mike PalingParticipant @mikepaling69128]

[Andy CarlsonParticipant @andycarlson18141]

Try to get hold of the most recent HMRS Journal – there is an article on exactly this question.

IIRC he concludes that the main influence was the MR lettering from Derby… some new SDJR locos being painted there. He could not be definitive on the question of shading colours. There were also variations – most likely the lettering was done by signwriters working to written instructions or perhaps copying an example so variations may be down to the individual's interpretation of the instructions. The buffer beam lettering definitely varies considerably between locos.

[Mike PalingParticipant @mikepaling69128]

Hi Andy … thanks for your quick reply.

I have just checked the HMRS web site and the most recent back copy available is the March 2019 edition … and it is shown as being out of stock anyway.

Any ideas on how I get the "latest version"?

Mike

[Gary WoodingParticipant @garywooding25363]

I found a photo of what I think you want, and then searched a few hundred fonts for a match. Here are the best matches I could find – any use?

Edited By Gary Wooding on 28/03/2021 13:41:38

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Having looked at many examples, I think Victorian signwriters and foundry-men took inspiration from print fonts rather than copy them exactly, because their work is inconsistent.

As Gary shows, it's often possible to get close by finding a similar modern font, perhaps pinching letters from a few of them for best effect.

Possible to get even closer by converting individual glyphs into paths and editing the path for an exact match. Tedious rather than difficult. My preferred tool is Inkscape.

First find a donor font, ideally one that doesn't need much modification, Gary's Bodoni MT Black is good, but I don't have it on my system. My example is UFW Bookman, Semi-bold, Demi-face, which is similar.

Start inkscape and type base glyph, here the letter J, and change the font. At this stage the letter can be resized and stretched using the arrow handles.

Next convert the J object into a path with Path->Object to Path. The result can be edited with the 'Edit Path by Nodes' tool, found upper left.

The path describing J is defined by the square and diamond rectangles; more can added, and they can all be moved to change the path's route. Here I just pulled the round serif to show the 'J' can changed into any shape required.

These path defined objects aren't typed, but they can be copied, moved, resized to form signage. The ability to shape the same letters slightly differently, and to set them a little randomly also helps recreate the hand-made look of original castings.

Dave

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 28/03/2021 17:04:08

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

In reality, most old sign work relied on the skills of the man* with the brush, and it was more common for type to be based on the production in paint. A good example is what we call Gill Sans – first used on a bookshop in Bristol, and then on a Locomotive, before being adapted for type.

*women with brushes did good work too.

Anyone not deeply interested in this is welcome to copy old typefaces for transfers, etc, but please be selective. Far too many non-type signs are based on Times Roman – which was intended for rapid printing on cheap paper, then to be thrown away.

If you need help finding a typeface to match a photo, etc, I may be able to help. No guarantees, not everything is a typeface.

And for the pedants among us, a font is a set of type of one design and one size only. If the printer needed a different size he bought a new font. Computer designers got this wrong (as in so many other things).

Cheers, Tim

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

If a foundry needed a different size they also would buy a larger font. Simples. Noel.

[Mike PalingParticipant @mikepaling69128]

Many thanks for all of your suggestions and thoughts.

I had been assuming that the fonts used by the "older" railway companies would have used standard fonts … I never thought that there would be so much variation and "freelance" involved.

I actually do have software that allows me to easily adjust the outlines of any given font … so I am currently busy modifying the "Bookman" font to match the SDJR lettering that I have on old photographs.

I should be able to produce my needed wet-slide decals quite easily now …. I already have the "SDJR Crest" ready for printing out ))

Cheers Mike

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Posted by Tim Stevens on 28/03/2021 17:56:43:

And for the pedants among us, a font is a set of type of one design and one size only. If the printer needed a different size he bought a new font. Computer designers got this wrong (as in so many other things).

Cheers, Tim

Having shared an office with printers for several years, one of whom taught typography, I can assure anyone that cares that the term 'pedant' is scarcely strong enough when professionals discussed the subject.

Talking about the Times family of typefaces, to take just one example, there would be arguments as to which of the different commercial versions (before personal computers there was no such thing as a 'free' font, they were all copyright to different companies) was best, with aesthetics, ease of reading and inkholding all entering into the fun.

Nick

PS – Different sizes of metal type, nominally of the same typeface, did not always use the same glyphs for corresponding letters – these were sometimes simplified in smaller sizes.

 

Edited By Nick Clarke 3 on 29/03/2021 11:04:00

[Andy CarlsonParticipant @andycarlson18141]

Posted by Mike Paling on 28/03/2021 11:32:51:

Hi Andy … thanks for your quick reply.

I have just checked the HMRS web site and the most recent back copy available is the March 2019 edition … and it is shown as being out of stock anyway.

Any ideas on how I get the "latest version"?

Mike

Hi Mike. It's Vol 23 No 10 – March 2021. 5 and a bit pages on SDJR loco lettering, partly observations based on a drawing in the care of the HMRS, partly correspondence with one of the preservation folks and partly relying on photos which can be had in books like the old SDJR loco history (David and Charles).

Sorry I don't have a good answer short of joining… other than find a friend or else try contacting HMRS and asking nicely.

HMRS also do well regarded transfers in 4mm and 7mm. Not sure whether they cater for bigger scales TBH. I model in 2mm and they don't go smaller than 4mm.

Regards, Andy

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