Which mill

[Mark Lawson 1Participant @marklawson1]

Hi all, forgive me if this is in the wrong section or has been posted before, sometime in January I will be buying a small milling machine the two I’m interested in are

**LINK**

**LINK**

I know Warco produce the WM14 which is the same as the AMA16V which would you recommend or is there another in a similar price range that is as good or better, at a later date I intend to fit DRO on the X and Y, I any help would be grateful of any help

[Mark Lawson 1Participant @marklawson1]

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Hiya Mark, you're first post ever eh?

Can you tell us cynical old gits why you are soley interested in modern brand spanking new corporate units and have not the slightest interest in anything whatsoever which may be second hand?

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Hi Mark,

which milling machine depends on what you want to make. There isn't that much difference between the two milling machines you mention. The XJ12 has MT3 taper in the spindle, so if you have MT 3 tooling already that may save you some money.

My experience is that it is a heavier milling machine is better, so if you can afford something like the Amadeal XJ25 you get a machine that is twice as heavy. I have a very similar machine (different paint and slightly different motor cover) and are very satisfied.

Thor

[Andrew EvansParticipant @andrewevans67134]

Agreed that bigger is better where possible. If you can find a 2nd hand machine it may be the best bet but good condition , good value 2nd hand mills aren't that common so if you need something 'now' then it can be easier. You also have to drive around looking at 2nd hand gear and moving it can be difficult without the right gear. Homeworkshop site is the best bet for 2nd hand gear in the UK.

[Oompa LumpaParticipant @oompalumpa34302]

You mignt also want to look on Lathes.co.uk Tony's site often has something very interesting.

Like Thor said, heavier is better and I too have the X25 equivalent and for my small shop I am deligthted with it. I bought mine "secoond hand" but it had never been used so there are some good buys out there, you just need to find them.

Having said all that my ideal machine for my shop and requirements would be a Tom Senior and if I find one at the right price and not too far away I will be buying it.

[JoParticipant @jo]

Sorry Andrew I disagree, a larger machine does not necessarily mean better, it depends on the item you are trying to make: I would not attempt to machine the same things on my Harrison mill as I would on my BCA or the Sixis 101. What is key to all of these machines is the rigity and quality of construction. Modern far eastern mills are made to a price and they represent very good beginners machines. Unlike second hand European/US machines, far eastern tools do not yet hold their value this could be beause the earlier ones where not to the same standard as the moderns ones, I could not say.

As for the two hobbiest machines that Mark has identified: Mark you really need to go and have a look at them. If you accept that the machines are a starting point, with some TLC you will be able to clean them up, make adjustments and maybe modifications to get them to meet your own requirements. They are both very powerful for their weight and will be capable of shifting metal, how accuratley they machine will depend on their adjustment and your ability to keep them adjusted.

Some suppliers will do you a starters kit with their mills, which will give you many of the items that you will need to buy yourself to get going.

Jo

[Oompa LumpaParticipant @oompalumpa34302]

At the risk of coming accross as argumentative and making a fool of myself (again) I don't think Thor or I were advocating larger, we were advocating the heavier was better. In the second link the OP posted he pointed at the Amadeal X25 mill which both Thor and I have (or the equivalent thereof) and we both agreed this was the better choice of the two machines as it was the heavier.

As I said in my post above Jo, I am really pleased with mine and as you have said, a bit of fettling goes a long way. Some of the locking bolts leave a great deal to be desired and this can be addressed, also the addition of a DRO of some kind is a great improvement.

[Daryl AdamsParticipant @daryladams13877]

Which mill ?

Firstly decide what metals you wish to mill or will ever need to, if your planning to mill stainless or a similarly hard metal where a good degree of milling is needed then obviously a small bench mill with a Jacobs chuck is not going to be up to the job. If your planning a good degree of milling then at least one power feed to the table should be considered essential along with digital readouts. One very good piece of advice is 'try before you buy', although this may not be practicable in reality one should at least have a look for the model milling on youtube, I recently watched a medium sized mill which looked fairly sturdy on paper but when I saw it on youtube attempting to drill a 1" hole in plate steel, it looked like it wasn't up to the job and the whole machine looked like it was wishing to have a wander about the room.

There are some good old second hand models available and 'new is not necessarily better', especially if parts for the older model are still made and catered for or can be sourced second hand. Most mills do not use morse taper tooling, therefore if the mill your planning on has MT then you will be slightly more limited to which tools you can use. For example, there are lots of second hand Clarkson type mill cutters (threaded shank) available in both new and used and often imperial sizes can be picked up cheaper than metric ones, then there is availability, the United States is all imperial so less frequent imperial sizes can always be sourced , So it's a good idea to choose the spindle type that offers the most available choices for tooling and is relatively easy to change. Common spindles like R8 or Int 30/40 all offer conversion to each other except to MT.

[Mark Lawson 1Participant @marklawson1]

Ady, yes this is my first post on this forum though I do post on other none engineering related forums; I’m no expert on milling machines hence why I have been looking at new machines plus ease of delivery also at the moment it’s rather difficult to spend time looking at used machines, for me it would have to be metric I haven’t a clue about imperial, an older European machine would be desirable as long as it’s priced similar I suppose the advantage is the tooling it would come with, at the moment I have no tooling for a mill save a few end mills I have used with my lathe.

As for what it’s for, I will be building a 1/6 scale RC tank mostly from scratch plus a few other vehicle related parts again in 1/6 scale

I have no tooling as yet so advice on which taper to go with would be helpful as in cost and availability of tools.

Jo, I do see these machines as starter machines I also think you are right about going to see them in person I may even get a better deal, the starter pack is also a very good point.

I will in the future be looking at fitting DRO’s on the mill and my lathe

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

Getting hands on is the best way of judging a machine.

If you can, get yourself along to one of the shows, Sandown is only a week away but unfortunately, Warco and Chester are not attending this year, not sure which machine suppliers will be there, or if you can wait, Ally Pally in January is well attended by the major machine suppliers.

Graeme

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Don't forget to cost in delivery – depending on which supplier and where you are this is variable. Also when some vendors list a few free extras and another doesn't that can be just that they forgot to put them in the list because they are always thrown in the box at the factory.

They often offer a deal on some 'extras' too, like clamping sets trying to catch you off guard with a high profit item. However if you are 'up against it' on your budget put everything into the main machine. There are threads on the forum suggesting you need hundreds of pounds worth of extra equipment before you can do anything. That is simply untrue. Over time you will get lots of tooling but on day one you only need one collet/holder (not a fancy collet chuck) and one 12mm slot drill which is about £15 together.

[Oompa LumpaParticipant @oompalumpa34302]

Just your comment on the necessity of Metric Mark. If you are fitting DRO's it is academic whether it is Metric or Imperial so a good Imperial machine would be one to consider.

My Mill is "Imperial" but following the advice of a few on here and whilst gathering the funds for a decent DRO setup I merely printed out some new scales and taped them to the handwheels for the time being.

I would have loved my Mill to have been R8 really (which is an option on my machine) but mine is M3. I have not yet come accross any reason to think this is in any way an impediment. Indeed M3 second hand tooling is as common as muck and I have had no issues sourcing good tooling at a good price.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

for me it would have to be metric I haven’t a clue about imperial

A Modern DRO would sort that problem out for you

You can change from imperial to metric with a button press and they are very accurate nowadays

So if you can get an oldie but a goodie for a good price don't worry about it being imperial

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Daryl, I would suggest that the use of a Jacobs Chuck in any sized milling machine is not to be recommended, I tried when I first got a mill, soon stopped that when it fell out, The chuck would need to be screwed on as in a hand power drill, the Jacobs taper in the chuck, and the morse taper in the mill(without draw bar), are not ment for side pressure. Ian S C

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

I find the columns that tilt at the base like the XJ12 to be a right royal pain in the butt, I find the mechanisms flex or vibrate/chatter a little at best, and at worse slip from time to time and run out tram requiring retramming – or checking out of paranoia on a regular basis.

This style column also greatly complicates the coordination and zeroing since moving the quill or column up and down results in movement in both X and Z directions (diagonally) when tilted so complex angles require some serious maths – where as the one that tilts about it column dovetail can still be wound up and down the column adjacent to the table so life is (a little) easier.

Also worth noting, both machine you've showed us are of the dovetail column type – round columns are (in my opinion) just as rigid, but the dovetails allow you to unlock the column and raise/lower the head with acceptable x-y ordination, whereas the round column type would require you to re-zero x-y. (an example would be you've centre drilled some holes and want to then drill them out, and the dill bit is much longer and the quill hasn't enough travel)

– just my 2 pence

[Mike BondarczukParticipant @mikebondarczuk27171]

I was recently looking for a mill and after searching eBay and other second hand sources decided on a new XJ-12-300 from Amadeal, who I do not work for.

The only additional items purchased, though at a high cost, were a good vice and a complete ER32 collect set. I can honestly say that the mill worked straight out of the box and then just needed cleaning.

The only other addition I am now looking at making is a set of DRO's and manufacturing 2 table stops, which most of these small mills do not have.

Mike B

[old AlParticipant @oldal]

I started of with a Warco minor mill. Second hand and cheap. Did some really good work on it, but found it really frustrating with only a downfeed on the quill. Sometimes it would move the correct amount, sometimes not. Then the next cut after measuring would take the cut and the bit it wouldn't drop and cut undersize. For the money and the tech support Warco gave me, I was generally pleased with the machine.

on a beginners machine, I would suggest a better second hand machine with anything but an MT2 taper to hold the tooling and that the table rises instead of having to make cuts using the quill.

A milling machine is a huge investment in a workshop and it takes tons of room, so don't jump in too quickly

[Phil H 1Participant @philh1]

Mark,

Ill just add my bit.

I have a Chester 16V which is almost identical to the links in your first post (just different colour) and I can only give it praise. It is accurate, easy to use and very capable – easily capable of removing significant chunks of metal.

Mine came from new with a drill chuck with No2 morse taper (for 10mm drawbar). I bought the following bits from model engineer exhibitions. Total cost for these extra bits was about £200 to £250;

1. small but accurate toolmakers vice
2. set of four imperial collets (No2 morse with 10mm thread) for holding HSS end mills and slot drills
3. clamping kit (studs and tee nuts etc)
4. indexable,18mm diameter tungsten tipped end mill with No2 morse taper (and a pile of spair tips)
5. a low profile rotary table with a no2 morse taper adaptor and Myford nose thread
6. A set of drills

The toolmakers vice is excellent and far superior to the typical machine vice that always tilts the workpiece slightly when tightened.

I try to use the tungsten cutter as much as possible because I don't have a tool and cutter grinder to resharpen the HSS cutters.

The low profile rotary table is necessary because the one big weakness with my mill is the limited distance between the table and spindle. The Myford adaptor allows me to use lathe chucks on the rotary table..

I agree with others that it is a starter mill and I have just bought a 626 Chester turret mill. Why? Because I am fortunate enough to have some money and I wanted a new toy. I also want to mill much bigger lumps of metal like locomotive main frames and cylinder blocks from solid. I could possibly get away with the 16V for most of this work but the turret mill is small enough for small parts but big enough when you need it – specially the spindle nose to table distance.

PhilH

[Mark Lawson 1Participant @marklawson1]

Thanks all for the information I was supposed to buy my mill January to February but with not just a house move but also moving back to England from Europe things didn’t go to plan.

Recently I have bought a Chester 16V this has a larger table 500 X 140mm and a 600watt motor as opposed to 400 x 120 and 500 watt from Amadeal and Warco, I spoke to all 3 companies on the telephone and all were extremely helpful and would quite happily have bought from all 3 companies the thing that threw the deal was the larger table and slightly more powerful motor, I also bought a collet and chuck set, vice, fly cutters, clamps, v blocks, parallels and a few other bits the service from Chester was hassle free and next day delivery, I know a few people mentioned the next model up and to be honest this would have been desirable but I’m on my own with no lifting gear and can only just manage to lift a 16V (75kg) the larger models were twice the weight I just couldn’t cope with that also the space would be an issue I need just over 1 meter for the 16V, next upgrade a set of DRO’s.

Thanks also to the chaps who mentioned the older English mills I did have a look and yes I could have bought one for similar money but don’t have the space nor the lifting gear to move said item though I have to admit that with a set of DRO’s fitted all the 1”3/8 4”9/16 stuff would have been understandable.

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

i have a secondhand dore westbury mk1. i must say for the stuff ive used it for it has been extremely good over the last 20 years. i am not an engineer so the poor thing has probably been abused and pressed to the limits in my hands

before that everything was done with a vertical slide on the lathe. luckily my lathe has a long cross slide.

the ability to rotate the head at an angle (and in one case swing about the head) has been extremely useful on occasions.

the fact that you hardly ever see them for sale speaks volumes for their owners not wishing to part with them.

cheers,

julian

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

with a set of DRO’s fitted all the 1”3/8 4”9/16 stuff would have been understandable

A rather good tip from a member in here was to use 25.6mm instead of 25.4mm if a measurement wasn't critical

everything goes into 256

so 4-9/16" is 25.4*4"=101.6mm 9/16 is 256/16=16 x 9=144=14.4mm

101.6mm + 14.4mm =116mm

[NJHParticipant @njh]

……. or just buy a calculator from the £ shop and keep it next to the machine !

Norman

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

Or set a digital caliper to the dimension required be it imperial or metric and switch from one to the other as most have both options.

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Quite so Bob – and the method I use. Not found a digital caliper for a quid yet though!

N

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