Which lathes have drawbars in the headstock?

[ell81Participant @ell81]

Do all lathes use drawbars in the headstock? Is there a way of telling which ones have drawbars? Do certain makes of lathe all use drawbars? Thanks.

 

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Almost all lathes have a hole through the headstock mandrel and can take a drawbar if needed, for example to close a collet, but it isn’t a standard fitment as far as I know. Why do you ask? I occasionally use one but just use a bit of studding.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Many watchmakers lathes e.g. Pultras use collets and thus have a drawbar. Another common use is on capstan lathes used in production work. Collets allow faster changing of the workpiece than a chuck.
As john has already said you can use one on any lathe that has a hollow spindle.

Robert.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

If you use cutters in morse taper headstocks you would be silly not to use a drawbar

[DC31kParticipant @dc31k]

Would it be very pedantic to suggest that a good many lathes do not have drawbars?

Many of the machines mentioned have draw tubes, which are hollow bars.

A solid drawbar puts a limitation on workpiece length going into the spindle and the method of stock loading.

On a production machine, a solid drawbar makes the use of bar pullers and bar feeders rather challenging.

I do not know the truth on this, but to my thinking a draw bar has a male thread on it, so the thing with which it engages would need a female thread. I am not sure of many collets that are made in that form.

[ell81Participant @ell81]

I ask because I want to mill on a lathe sometimes. Thanks.

[ell81Participant @ell81]

This is why I want a drawbar – to use cutters on a lathe.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

If your lathe has a MT3 taper in the spindle like my 7 x12 one at home, it would be easy to get a MT3 to er25 collet holder which would have a 12mm thread for a drawbar. Then a length of 12mm studding an adaptor or washers and a nut would give you collet sizes from 1mm to 16mm.

Morse taper collets in MT2 and 3 are easy to get hold of for direct holding, but the er25 or 32 are more versatile. You can also get er mounting plates to fit on a chuck backplate or a faceplate which won’t need a drawbar and also have a through hole for holding longer work. These er collets will also work in place of a normal chuck for smaller diameter work.

[bernard towers]

On bernard towers Said:

If you use cutters in morse taper headstocks…

Can we note the exception as Myford MA99E collets?

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

If you want a drawbar for your lathe, you will have to make one, or maybe two.

Older 2 and 3MT taper shanks are likely to be threaded 3/8 BSW.

Newer ones are likely to be M12.

You will also need to turn up a collar for the clamp nut to bear against, at the rear end of the spindle.

You can use any thread that you choose for the clamp nut, but I find that 3/8 BSW provides quite enough clamping force.

Failing to use a drawbar, and to tighten it, is asking for the forces involved in milling (A series of interrupted cuts) to shake the cutter and MT holder loose.

In my experience, milling in the lathe requires care and only light cuts (I have tried this with a Vertical Slide on a Myford ML7 and on a much larger lathe). I still prefer the Mill/Drill, since it is more rigid, and heavier cuts can be taken.

Howard

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

That is noted

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

You have not told us what lathe you have ? For the Myyford there is an ER 32 collet holder that screws on to the spindle thread and can be set true as it is 2 piece, this allows the hollow spindle to be used for stock feed. The same is true of the leaver operated collet chuck with the MA99E collets. Noel.

[Peter Cook 6Participant @petercook6]

It depends more on the collet system than the lathe.

I have a Taig with an ER16 collet headstock. It uses a closing nut rather than a drawbar. However I also have adapters that fit in the ER16 taper and allow the use of 6mm and 8mm Watchmakers lathe collets. Both those methods need drawbars.

[Howard Lewis]

On Howard Lewis Said:

Failing to use a drawbar, and to tighten it…

As the questioner is a beginner, perhaps it would be wise to be a little more precise about what you mean by ‘tighten’.

The risk and consequences of too much tighten is rather greater than the opposite. It is better to start with a lightly snugged drawbar, and if the tooling becomes loose in use, use a little more effort the next time.

The other option, using Kwikfit levels of torque, will make removing the tool difficult after use. This can be compounded by the slenderness (length/diameter) of the chosen draw bolt. An M6 draw bolt 24″ long will retain any reasonable tensile force, but tapping on the end of it to remove the tooling will buckle it.

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

If (in the light of your initial question) you are considering your options before ‘tooling-up’, there are some pretty big advantages in having a system that doesn’t use a drawbar – because then you can use it for workholding too –

Collets (generally) run ‘truer’, grip more firmly, and do so without marking or crushing delicate existing features such as threads or recesses. They enable closer working, better visibility and occasionally other benefits that I can’t be bothered to list here😊

If I have work that I can fit in a collet, I will nearly always use that in preference to a chuck.

As noted above, it’s best if the work can be passed through whatever-you-are-holding-it-in, so a collet or collet chuck with a hole through it will ultimately always be more useful than a taper-mount chuck.

If you already have a taper-mount chuck then use a piece of studding with a ‘top-hat’ bush on the far end.

 

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

A No1 morse taper collet set is available from RDG which should fit your Zyto lathe but you will have to make your own draw bar just a length of bar with a thread on each end and a nut on the other end to the collet holder. I used the same collet set for a while on my Drummond M Type lathe but as I could only mill small pieces I bought a mill from Chester tools.

1MT ER25 COLLET CHUCK SET COLLETS CHUCK SPANNER FITTED STORAGE CASE RDGTOOLS – RDG Tools

David

[vic neweyParticipant @vicnewey60017]

My Pittler lathe has a drawbar, it has an a sliding insert adapter on the bar itself and a collet adapter at the front end, also several other adapters. A system like this means you could make a drawbar and adapters to suit differnt sized collets

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

ell81 asks a complicated question, and it would help to know what he intends to mill on it.  Quite likely the answer is “don’t use a drawbar – look for alternatives”.

Milling on a lathe is very restricted compared with what can be done on a milling machine.   Small lathes are worse than big ones.  The fundamental problem is lack of rigidity and space, so milling on a lathe is constrained to small objects and light cuts.  It can also require considerable ingenuity – lack of space makes work-holding tricky.   I’d go so far as to say if you can afford a milling machine and have the space, buy one!

Bearing in mind that only light milling cuts are allowed in a lathe, may be possible to hold the cutter in a 3-jaw chuck rather than a collet, and periodically check it’s still tight.  Might be ‘good-enough’, depending on what ell81 is doing.  Not ideal, but then neither is finding a collet chuck that fits the lathe and installing a drawbar.   The drawbar isn’t a problem – a length of studding that screws into the chuck, with a nut and washer at the other end.  Which collet system is another question! (I’d recommend ER32, but take note of other advice.)

Owning a milling machine made milling on my lathe obsolete, more trouble than it’s worth.  Have done lathe milling though with cutters held in a 3-jaw, and in an ER32 collet chuck.  Not tried it, but I have a square Stephenson’s collet block that could be mounted in a 4-jaw, again no need for a drawbar.   BUT this is a lathe configured for bolt-on chucks, which run in reverse and resist vibration, removing the need for a drawbar.  Lathes with screw-on chucks aren’t so versatile, so milling would be less risky with a drawbar.   That said, Sparey doesn’t mention drawbars in Chapter 13 of ‘The Amateur’s Lathe’.  (Highly recommended!)  None shown in the pictures, one of which has a cutter held in a screw-on 3-jaw.

Dave

[ell81]

On 1 April 2025 at 18:45 ell81 Said:

Do all lathes use drawbars in the headstock? Is there a way of telling which ones have drawbars? Do certain makes of lathe all use drawbars? Thanks.

 

The best thing you can do is choose a lathe that fits your wallet, workshop and location. If it’s a new one then the specs for the spindle taper will be on the web site. If it’s an old one then the spindle taper is likely to be on here  .

Be aware that new metric milling cutters in model engineering sizes all have shanks of 6 10 12 and 16 regardless of the slot size cut.

MT1 will be too small and the lathe too light to hold the work. MT2 or MT3 are fine, metric one come with a 10mm drawbar thread. Cutter holders are available

A lot of older lathes come with 3C Boxford? 4C and 5C tapers 5C being the most common. These have a hollow tube draw bar that might allow the cutter to walk.

You can get a 5C to ER32adapter

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

4mm is also a very common shank, I have a lot of them ideal for small models or small features on large models.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Since most model engineers didn’t have milling machines until the ’70’s using the lathe has been proved to be perfectly adequate if used appropriately.
Apart from the Hardinge possibly having a 5C bore all other lathes seem to need an adaptor. I suspect patent restrictions drove this during the formative years until Morse became so ubiquitous nobody ever questioned its suitability.

[ell81Participant @ell81]

To be honest. I’m looking for an ideal lathe still.

[ell81Participant @ell81]

Thankd for your detailed post. Honestly I was going to go for a lathe and mill on it as a slightly cheaper alternative to a mill. I’m aware there will be limitations as you say. I’m still deciding what my best option is. Thanks.

[ell81]

On ell81 Said:

To be honest. I’m looking for an ideal lathe still.

What size of lathe do you need? eg. A realistic maximum workpiece diameter and length?

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Id like to see this ideal lathe!!!

[Author]

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