Which indexable lathe tools?

[jason spencerParticipant @jasonspencer41535]

My Lathe has 17mm tool posts, so i'm looking to get some 16mm indexable tooling.

Looking to spend a max of about £180 on a range of tools.

What should i go for?

[jason spencerParticipant @jasonspencer41535]

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Have you checket to see that a 16mm tool will not come above ctr height, just because a tool will fit the post it may not allow the cutting edge to go low enough.

Myself I mostly have the Glanze holders and use better tips than supplied. Look at getting Left and right hand turning and a parting tool to start with plus a couple of different size boring bars as a 16mm bar will be no good in a 12mm hole.

J

[jason spencerParticipant @jasonspencer41535]

with the tool post i've got you can adjust the tool height, however I will check.

[jason spencerParticipant @jasonspencer41535]

I've a nice rapid original tool post that I can adjust for height.

so what tools? Much real difference between using a 12mm shank tool and 16mm?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Unless you have a lathe capable of taking heavy cuts you won't be able to push the tool to a llimit where 12 vs. 16 will be noticable. Also worth remembering that a 16mm holder may well take larger inserts than a 10 or 12mm holder which will cost more and if you are only using 1 or 2mm of the cutting edge the rest will be wasted money. What lathe do you have and what sort of work do you intend to do

The majority of my holders are 6 and 8mm with the exception of boring bars where the extra mass of a larger shank is needed due to reach so Ihave them upto 16mm and homemade even thicker.

J

[alan-lloydParticipant @alan-lloyd]

Glanze is good, also Arrand, same tip in all tools plus very good quality, no web site though.

[jason spencerParticipant @jasonspencer41535]

I have a boxford STS250. I think its about 1hp, 3 phase.

Current projects are making adapters and spacers on a motorcycle project(including yokes/rearsets). Then i'd like to build a stationary engine of some sort.

[SteveIParticipant @stevei]

Jason,

I stongly recommend to take the time to check it before spending money on 16mm tool holders.

I have a Boxford IS 11.30 (aka 280). I may be wrong since I don't have a 250 manual but I think that they are very similar. Your is of course a touch smaller. For my lathe I use 12mm square tool holders. That is the maximum size I can use with my QCTP (Bison T0 sized dickson style tool holders). Physically I could fit 16mm2 but the tool tip would always be above center height.

Regards,

Steve

[jason spencerParticipant @jasonspencer41535]

HI Steve

Thanks for your reply.

I've actually been looking at 12mm stuff as its a bit of a cost saving. I did put a 16mm block in and with the tool post adjusted 16mm was center height.

Which tool holders do you use?

Regards

[SteamgeekParticipant @steamgeek]

Jason

I am also using Glanze tools holders, but through lots of frustration have found the cutting tips are the key to making these work succesfully for model engineers.

I have found Sandvik and Iscar tips very durable and give a good finish, especially if you use the CCGT tips on softer metals brass, aluminium and EN1 steel, also puts a nice final cut on EN8.

I occaisionally have been tempted by cheaper tools but the locking screw for the carbide tip on the Glanze tools seem to be a better system

[jason spencerParticipant @jasonspencer41535]

Steam geek.

You seem to be repeating what others have said. Do the tools take a normal size tip then and not a 'glanze specific' one?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The tips supplied with Glanze and for that matter most hobby insert tooling are standard shapes but a bit on the cheap size and the actual geometry of the cutting edge may not suit all uses. There was a very good thread a few weeks back about what tips to look for.

The are a few hobby sets of holders that have obscure inserts and are best avoided, if you go with something like the CCMT/CCGT06 or more likely 09 on the bigger holders you will have a vast range to choose from. This tip shape can be used in most forms of holder with the exception of the parting tool so it means you only need to keep a stock of one type of insert.

Edited By JasonB on 07/10/2013 12:52:12

[SteamgeekParticipant @steamgeek]

Jason

Most of the tools take generic tips, so for instance a Glanze 10mm cutting tool I have uses a CCMT 06 tip, you can also use a CCGT 06 tip. The boring bars that I use also use the same CCMT / CCGT tip ( yes they are Glanze ). Glanze also use DCMT tips

I have used this web site to figure out what the letters and numbers actually mean **LINK** which has helped me understand what I am buying.

It is very easy to end up with a box full of tool holders needing different carbide tips ( which are not cheap items ), so I always ask what the tip code is before I buy. Gloster tooling is pretty ok as well, I have a couple of their holders and they have been good value for money and they use CCMT / DCMT tips

The other thing I figured out, after wrecking several tips, was setting tip height is more critical than with HSS, I typically run 0.05mm below centre line, but I know other people who have different views and will be screaming at the screen as they read this.

BTW I use an ML7

 

 

 

 

Edited By SteamGeek on 07/10/2013 13:02:57

[Luke GrahamParticipant @lukegraham30014]

Posted by jason spencer on 07/10/2013 10:51:27:

Steam geek.

 

You seem to be repeating what others have said. Do the tools take a normal size tip then and not a 'glanze specific' one?

 

My understanding was that the indexable tips were very standardised, and that by specifying e.g. CCGT or CCMT, you were describing everything about the shape of the tip. So there would be nothing specific to Glanze about the tips that would fit into their holders.

Edit: Oops, beaten by two other posters

Luke

Edited By Luke Graham on 07/10/2013 13:42:04

[jason spencerParticipant @jasonspencer41535]

Thanks for the info people.

I've gone for the following from Glanze

10mm internal threading

12mm external threading

Also a set that includes

Boring & facing counterbore @ 90 'with 95 'approach for minimum bore size dia of 9.5mm
45' Chamfer on RH side and 55' on LH side
50' Chamfer on both LH & RH side
Only through facing with 75' approach utilising 100' LH unused cutting corners
Only turning with 75' approach utilising 100' unused RH cutting corners
Turning & facing at 90' with 95' approach LH style
Turning & facing at 90' with 95 approach RH style

All in 12mm shank.

I didn't go for tips so need to find some decent tips for aluminium…… Just need to find some of those now.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The Glanze CCGT tips for non ferrous are actually very good for Ali, brass & bronze

[SteveIParticipant @stevei]

Hi,

I am a bit late in replying but since I spent the time to type I'll post…. Jason I'll try and answer your question, I have dickson style QCTP made by Bison. It is for the T0 size holders. Part numbers as follows:

QCTP P/N 4414-62×51. There are 2 sides that can mount tool holders.. If I didn't already have it, I wouldn't go out and buy one of these see below for why.

Standard tool holder: 4494-62 N

Standard V tool holder: 4495-62 N

Parting off tool holder: : 4496-62

Morse taper (1) tool holder: 4497-62/1N

boring bar holder (metric) max Ø 19mm | 3/4"  4498-62

boring bar holder (metric) max Ø 25mm: 4499-62

There are various sleeves available for the Ø25mm boring bar holders, these reduce the internal diameter to 8,10,12,16,or 20mm respectively..

 

The prices are eye watering. I feel lucky in that I have enough standard holders for now. I don't have any of the Chinese clones, but I would be interested to learn about the quality and fit they have. The bisons seem (to a beginner) to be nicely made although not as nice as some older British made I have seen at dealers on older myford, harrison etc lathes. Also the system is not as quick as others to clamp and release due to the need for a spanner. I plan on modifying it to improve that.

 

I understand that this QCTP is now at leat one of the options Boxford supply as standard with their new lathes. Rotagrip online sell the bison items. I also understand that other vendors do so as well. The usual suspects sell the Chinese clones.

 

My tools are from Arrand. Usual disclaimer; I am no more or less than a happy customer. I try to support English made within reason where I can and funds allow. Arrand are an hours drive from where I used to live and also post for free on reasonable sized orders. Their turning (right and left hand) facing (right and left), boring and end mills tooling all use the same tips. Which are according to the catalogue:

A1 – multipurpose 0.015" | 0.4mm radius, ISO no TCMT 110204

A2 – steel 0.015" | 0.4mm radius, ISO no TCMT 110204

It seems sensible to assume there is some missing information form the Arrand catalogue to differentiate the 2 tip types. I'd be interested to learn what the full specification is.

 

Although the tips they supply are (from memory talking to Arrand so don't quote me) Sandvik or Widia depending on if it is what they call the A1 or A2 (not sure which is which.) The inserts are common to the lathe tools and also end mills. That saves me a fair bit and helps offset the cost of buying Arrand. Although Arrand are small enough to be VAT free which helps as well.

 

In due course I'll need to get a solution for thread cutting and specifically for 55 degree whitworth thread forms and would like an insert based parting off solution. Arrand's 60 degree triangle tips don't cover everything. I'm sure I could have chosen something better / more future proof / etc etc…. I would be improbably clever or lucky to have made all the right choices but as a beginner I found the whole world of indexable tip tooling a mine field. The articles in MEW back issues and searching this and other forums helped (I forget the issues) time will tell if I made the right decision but in the mean time I'm up and running in this wonderful hobby.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

Edited By SteveI on 07/10/2013 20:19:01

Edited By SteveI on 07/10/2013 20:25:23

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