Which cutting lubricant

[DaedalusParticipant @daedalus]

Hi, up to now I have used Rocol cutting fluids, dripped or brushed onto my workpiece and tooling in the lathe, mill and drill. Its got to a horrendous price, what can others recommend, that will work as well, that maybe cheaper?

Edited By Daedalus on 17/06/2023 07:57:07

[DaedalusParticipant @daedalus]

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Which Rocol are you using?

Neat or diluted?

Key to economy is to choose something that keeps and can be used at high dilution.

Almost 20 years ago I took a deep breath and paid around £40 for 5 litres of Ultra-cut. Using it at approx 40 to 1 dilution I'm about half way down the bottle now. Big hit was filling the lube pan on the S&B 1024. Being synthetic it doesn't smell or go off.

Worst aspect of high dilution is needing to wipe things down at close of play followed by anointing with way oil or similar to protect machined surfaces. I think it good practice to work a bit of lube under the lathe saddle et al before lights out. Synthetic is better than suds when its comes to corrosion but it can still trap water underneath. I imagine high dilution gives better wipe off too.

These days I tend to use Bjur Spray mist devices, modified to work like micro-drop systems rather than spray to avoid fug, on the lathes and mill. Being very careful where I point the nozzle, more like running air blast cooling really. squirt bottle on drill, saw and shaper. 500 cc ex LiDL bathroom cleaner squirt bottle lasts around 6 months between re-fills. Choose a squirt bottle made for something aggressive as the stuff can eat the squirter innards.

Clive

Edited By Clive Foster on 17/06/2023 08:42:25

[DC31kParticipant @dc31k]

With Rocol, you are paying for an extensive marketing department.

Any neat cutting oil will be 95% or more the same formulation.

ArcEuro sell RockOil's version.

Random searches turned up these:

CT90 (I have used their aerosol one and it is acceptable)

Sherwood STD (from Zoro). Price looks good.

Morris MCT (I have used this and it is acceptable)

Look to the smaller, independent oil companies, e.g Rye oils, Westway, Smith and Allen, all through eBay. The product is sold by everyone; the difficulty is finding it in less than 205 litre multiples.

Buying in 5 litre quantity is a lot cheaper than 500ml.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Using mostly **GT carbide insert tooling these days, I rarely find a need for cutting oil. Only time I use anything is for screwcutting with HSS tools and then I use whatever is in the oil can for the lathe bearings, usually 20/50 engine oil. For tapping and die-ing threads I use Trefolex compound.c

I've given up using oil on milling cutters. Just seems to stick the swarf to them and clog things up.

Edited By Hopper on 17/06/2023 09:19:01

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

RTD for tapping Etc, I agree it's pricey but works well and you only need 1 drop – and I'm mean ! Revert to lard ? Like hopper otherwise what ever is in the oil can. If it's a long job in Stainless I may turn on the suds. Noel.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Not knocking the lower cost oils, but that 5% difference is probably where 99.99% of the difference in performance is and a lot of the cost. The small quantities of additives are critical to perfomance.
However for hobby uses we probably don't need ultimate performance. That said I have a lot of Rocol products…..

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

I have started trying WD40 cutting oil, in a spray can, only because it is convenient. It initially foams up and so sticks where you want it. You can get a tiny blob which is often just right for what I do.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/wd-40-specialist-cutting-oil-400ml/679GY

I don't have any idea if it is actually any good otherwise.

[Anonymous]

All my machine tools, apart from the pillar drill, have flood coolant. I never use neat cutting oil, Instead I use Hysol XF, a general purpose soluble oil. How I use coolant depends on the machine.

Centre lathe: normally cut dry with insert tooling, use coolant for drilling and some HSS tooling, and for parting off

Repetition lathe: exclusively HSS tooling so use flood coolant on steel and dry on brass

Vertical mill: never use coolant, I mostly run carbide endmills, but also run HSS cutters dry. I use WD40 when drilling light alloys

Horizontal mill: insert cutters are used dry, but mostly run HSS side and face and slab mills where I use flood coolant

CNC mill: mostly use flood coolant except for plastics and cast iron. Coolant is mainly for washing away swarf

Pillar drill: rarely used, but always dry

I don't really see the point of dabbing on cutting oil, it just generates smoke and a sticky mess around the cutting tool. A 20 litre container of Hysol XF has lasted me about 8 years, but needs replacing soon.

Andrew

[JAParticipant @ja]

Morris Lubricants CORA B neat cutting oil on all metals except brass and cast iron. I do not use carbide tooling except on chilled cast iron. The cutting oil is flooded on the large lathe and applied by brush on the small lathe and milling machine. In all cases the oil is collected after use and re-used.

In practice the used cutting oil also contains machine tool lubricating oils and white spirit. This works for me.

JA

[JAParticipant @ja]

Just had a shock by having a quick look at Morris Lubricants' web site.

All lubricants have become very expensive and CORA B is only available in 25 litre drums at about £220 including VAT. Owch!

JA

[peak4Participant @peak4]

At the moment, and for the foreseeable future, as I bought 20 litres, I'm using Pennine Lubricants Metacut-CF
https://www.penninelubricants.co.uk/product/metacut-cf/

I'm not sure of the current price, but it was reasonable at the time; there may well be a local distributor near you.
It's a neat oil, which I apply by a little squeezy battery top-up bottle on the Myford, or a built in suds pump from a tank on the larger Warco GH1330

Bill

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

I know these comments will be controversial to some but I use a cheap generically branded soluble oil which I bought from a local oil and grease merchant. I dilute it approx. 20-25:1 and add a squirt of Rocol bactericide which seems to keep the black grunge at bay. I accept that some people will not tolerate the idea of something containing water being used on their cherished machines but when I was an apprentice in a BREL training school we were ordered to swill down the lathes with the soluble oil, that was provided as a coolant and cutting lubricant, every Friday afternoon after a week's work. This is a practice I have continued ever since on my Colchester Student, which is the same model upon which I received instruction in the training school. It may not be considered acceptable, or even desirable, practice in these days of high-production rates on CNC machines but I am not in that business. I am simply making what amounts to trainee test pieces in a back-shed workshop and it works for me.

(BTW, I use the same fluid on a Harrison mill which is capable of taking some big bites out of noggins of steel when using 'sensibly guestimated' speeds and feeds). 

Edited By Chris Crew on 18/06/2023 21:43:33

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Using neat cutting oil is very wasteful.

Only a very tiny amount of oil is needed to lubricate the tool tip and work so the cut proceeds easily with the chip running smoothly over the tool. Check out the consumption of pure oil microcode systems for confirmation.

Conventional suds emulsion used in flooded applications is largely about cooling which is mostly done by the water content. Compared to water oil is pretty pants at taking heat away, especially at the low temperatures typical of the light cuts inescapable with smaller machines.

Synthetic oils have better extreme pressure lubrication properties than conventional cutting oils so higher dilutions can be used. Its probably true to say that for folk like us the mostly water content is primarily there to give the spray or brush something to get hold of.

I find the only exception to diluted Ultra-Cut is for single pass threading as with a die, whether conventional or coventry, which needs the heavy duty lubricants specially designed for the job.

Clive

[FulmenParticipant @fulmen]

I make my own cutting oil by dissolving sulfur in rapeseed oil. Works surprisingly well, and smokes less than Rocol. It's about 5% sulfur by weight and then heated gently until everything dissolves and the oil darkens a bit. Too little heat and the sulfur just precipitates out again, too much and it becomes gummy and develops a … funky… odor.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Clarks, machine mart. 1 litre. I have been using it for 2 years & still have some left. It sometimes smokes a bit but does the job & was not expensive.

Steve.

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