Which boring head should I go for?

[The Merry MillerParticipant @themerrymiller]

Morning folk,

I I'm sussing out the market for 2MT boring heads for my Tom Senior universal mill.

It's going to be an early birthday present but she doesn't know that yet.

My preference is for a Vertex model but should I go for 3" rather than 2" also the capability of changing adaptors from 2MT to 3MT would be an advantage as I then have the possibility of using the head in the mill horizontal configuration without having to use a 3MT to 2MT sleeve.

I assume the difference between the 2" and the 3" is only in the maximum bore that can be accomplished but I haven't tracked down those details yet, I'm still looking.

I also assume that the boring bars have to be purchased separately.

Comments would be most welcome.

Len. P.

[The Merry MillerParticipant @themerrymiller]

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Head size can also determine if the boring head will fit down into the actual hole being bored, handy if you want to bore a long cylinder as the head and possibly the quill will also fit and with the tool mounted horizontally there will be little overhang, if you did the same with a tool mounted vertically on say a 4" long x 2.5" cylinder the tool would need to stick out the head at least 4" rather than 1/4" using the other method.

Larger head can also get more out of balance and need running slower.

Larger head and a small hole being bored can run the risk of the head hitting your hold down clamps.

I use a 2" and have swung 6" dia holes.

I got a couple of HSS bits included with my head but bought a set of 9 brazed tip ones which hold an edge for longer. I have also recently got a set of 3  indexable bars by Glanze which work very well.

 J

Edited By JasonB on 17/03/2012 10:28:24

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

I have a small Arrand and a larger "generic" 2-inch head. The Arrand cuts exactly what you dial in, the other is a bit hit and miss, you have to go slow and keep measuring. I'd recommend the best you can get, and Arrand seem to be excellent. I think 2 brazed tools came with the larger one, and I bought one of the brazed-tip sets which are OK. One-piece carbide tools are available from Arc and are good, and RDG now have one-piece HSS sets which are very nice and easier to sharpen.

[The Merry MillerParticipant @themerrymiller]

Gray,

I have no qualms about making a head but my projects on the go at the moment dictate that making a Kennedy style powered hacksaw comes first for which I will need a boring head readily available.

I will no doubt make a miniature version later on, (with dovetail slides) after the tool cutter grinder of my own design is finished!!

I have also got to fit in somewhere along the line time to finish off a double hoop windsor chair in ash and elm for my grandson before I run out of time.

Len. P.

[JohnFParticipant @johnf59703]

Depends on your budget but I would go for quality every time, Wohlhaupter & Kaiser are I believe two the best you can get and they do turn up on Ebay now and then, you might like to have the UPA1 which is more difficult to find–about 2" O/D the UPA2 is more popular and about 4" O/D

I have no experience eof the other brands mentioned but I do used other Arrand tooling and find it excellent. Only other one I used was an OMT and it was a nightmare — a real guessing game as to how much cut you had put on !!! That's me 5p anyway.

John

[Dennis WAParticipant @denniswa]

Len… I have a Wohlhaupter UPA3 with a 2 MT shank (it is not removable on mine, but I believe it is on larger models) – I use it with an 2 MT to ISO40 adaptor on my universal milling machine. The body is just under 3.5" diameter. I do not know how old my example is, as it lacks a serial number.

If you are planning to do lots of boring then a good 2nd hand one (mine came off eBay UK) is a good choice. A UPA1, UPA 2 or UPA 3 would be the range of sizes that model engineers would look at.

Dennis

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I made my own from 2" diameter MS, and I am happy with it. I made a proper dovetail with a gib.

I haven't made a 90-degree hole in it so it is limited to about 3" diameter – I'm not sure it would be happy with larger holes. The hardest part is setting the cutters at the right angle, if find a slight amount of negative top rake can help as they can rub if set up the tiniest amount too far the other way.

Neil

[The Merry MillerParticipant @themerrymiller]

Interesting responses so far.

I would like to buy the best I can afford, that's always been my philosophy but in this instance it would be the best my wife can afford.

I know she loves me but does she love me enough to pay out for the top brand as has been recommended, I doubt it!!! Sometimes I have to secretly subsidise a birthday present from her and tell white lies about the cost, I really hate doing that but I'm sure I'm not the only one.

I would like to find details of the George Thomas design and the design of Gray's with the facing feature built in, that could be very interesting.

If Gray has made his design open source I would like to see a set of drawings for it if at all possible.

Len. P.

P.S. Is there a way of deleting incriminating posts?

[The Merry MillerParticipant @themerrymiller]

I have PM'd you Gray.

Len.P.

[steamdaveParticipant @steamdave]

For a long while I used an Arrand Engineering boring head. When I changed my milling machine, I sold the Arrand head (separately) and bought a Far Eastern 2" boring head. They appear to be the same whatever badge is on them. BIG mistake. Wish I had kept the Arrand head now and indeed, may even save up for another one.

I must say I like the look of Graham's boring/facing head!

Dave

The Emerald Isle

[VersabossParticipant @versaboss]

Posted by steamdave on 18/03/2012 19:22:16:

… and bought a Far Eastern 2" boring head. They appear to be the same whatever badge is on them. BIG mistake.

I must say I like the look of Graham's boring/facing head!

Dave, I can only endorse that. I have also one of these 2" boring heads and never could make a decent cut with it. I tried several types of tools, long or short, thicker or slender, Carbide and HSS, all to no avail. The surface always looks like cut with a cold chisel. But I cannot detect any play in the head; the slide is not loose also. I can only think that the Morse 2 shaft is not man enough.

That said. I built the GHT boring head way back 1980 I believe, and this one works like a charm in the same machine. But sometimes I could use one a number bigger. I was thinking about making the GHT somewhat larger (120 – 130%) but now our dear colleague Graham has his design (with facing capability) published in that other mag… I am very tempted!!!

Greetings, Hansrudolf

[The Merry MillerParticipant @themerrymiller]

 

Well I finally took the plunge after finding out my wife's pockets aren't as deep as I thought they were, unless she's holding back on me in anticipation of this year's Christmas present that normally materialises about September time.

After considerable deliberation and much advice from this forum and colleagues etc, and of course the reduced pot of gold, I plumped for the 2" Matchling Head with a 2MT Vertex adaptor.

It arrived this morning and with shaking fingers ripped the box open (I should have put on my safety boots first though!!)

Very impressed with the apparent overall quality in particular with the beautiful Matchling logo which will no doubt assist in producing future works of engineering excellence.

I will be running it up over the next week or so and will report back on my impressions unless you forum folk  have your totally unbiased impressions already.

Once the Kennedy style power hacksaw project is completed, using of course the Matchling Head (with logo of course) then I can start to cut up the material for the magnificent boring and facing head of Gray's as shown and explained about so eloquently in this posting.

 

Len. P.

 

 

 

Edited By The Merry Miller on 21/03/2012 14:14:29

[VersabossParticipant @versaboss]

Posted by Graham Meek on 21/03/2012 12:40:26:

Hello Hansrudolf,

Glad you like my design, my aplologies for writing for the other mag.

The boring head problems that you are having, is the milling machine gear driven or belt driven?

Thanks Graham, no apologies, I begin to like the 'other' more and more. For me there are much more interesting articles than in ME, and I get always a bit annoyed when I see errors in almost every MEW. (I suppose DC will try to choke me for that if I were nearer )

The machine is a Fehlmann Picomax with variable drive via movable pulleys Much too good for me actually! 3ph as most of my machines; today 3ph current is in every house here.

I have also an Emco; the head only to be exact, mounted on a much heavier table. This was my first milling machine. I am a bit ashamed to confess I don't use it much now, expecially when I see the wonderful work you do on it. I am totally spoiled from my other machines. And it loses oil from the spindle; always a mess on the table.

Btw the GHT head I built on the Emco, and it works perfectly also on this machine. The larger head I did not try on it, I suspect it would show the same problem or even worse.

Greetings, Hansrudolf

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi Hansrudolf

Perhaps you should count the pages and number of articles in Model Engineer.

That plus the fact that we have to do 3 magazines every 4 weeks.

Errors are minimal but have always been in the magazine because of the sheer amount of content included.

regards David

[The Merry MillerParticipant @themerrymiller]

Evening all,

I have just started delving into the digital archive now I'm a fully paid up member.

Whilst browsing "Issue 6" from August/September 1991 I came across an article on another "automatic boring and facing head" by Don Unwin.

This also looks very impressive and is certainly well worth more than a cursory glance which you can easily achieve by printing off pdfs' on the article and studying at your leisure.

I'll try to find a way of putting a link to it in this post later.

I'm very impressed with the archive setup Mr. D. Clark. albeit it will take me years to get through every issue. If I run out of time will my wife be able to get a rebate?

Len. P.

[The Merry MillerParticipant @themerrymiller]

This is the link to Don Unwin's Boring Head.

It's probably only available to those who have access to the archives by subscription.

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/members/digitaleditions/popup.asp?t=9&i=480

Len. P.

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi Len

No but she will be able to read the magazines herself.

regards David

[The Merry MillerParticipant @themerrymiller]

Evening Gray,

Don's article states two feed rates are available, 0.05mm and 0.1mm, I haven't studied it in too much detail yet because I'm getting tired and the clocks go forward tomorrow.

Perhaps you have to select one or the other at the time of assembly!!

He also states that direction of travel can be towards or away from the centre depending on how the tool is positioned, I haven't got my head around that bit yet.

I'm going back now to what's left of Mothers day chocolates in the other room.

Len.

[The Merry MillerParticipant @themerrymiller]

I've PM'd you Gray.

Len. P.

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi Gray,

I have not seen this design but could it be that you just rotate the tool by 180 Deg. and adjust the starting point to be either the center or a little rarger diameter than the surface being faced. The moving part of the boring head would only need to move in one direction if this was done.

Les.

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

If the head is arranged so that it has the usual three sockets, one either side of the centre and the range of movement is symmetrical about the centre, then you only need it to be able to feed in one direction as facing towrad otr away from the centre becomes just a choice of which hole you use.

Neil

[The Merry MillerParticipant @themerrymiller]

Morning all,

Just noticed a Kuroda Boring and Facing Head went for £411 on fleabay, Oh! I wish I had waited.

Len. P.

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