Where’s this rust come from ?

[Bob WildParticipant @bobwild67557]

Two months ago I bought a tool chest in an attempt to tidy up my workshop.

To my horror many of the tools are going rusty, like this V Block for example:

The only surface affected is that in direct contact with the bottom of each drawer. It look like there is a layer of material which looks like baize (but is not) glued to the wood and the parts are actually stuck to this. So the question is what has caused this, and more importantly how can I prevent it ?

[Bob WildParticipant @bobwild67557]

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

Moisture in the wood ??

[peak4Participant @peak4]

You could line the drawers with VCI rust inhibitor paper.
I've done this with most of my mini Bisley filing cabinet drawers; it's a bit slippery though, so I added a layer of non-slip carpet mesh from Ikea.

Bill

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Buy youreself a small dehumidier. this will take all the damp from the air in your room., This will stop any rust from accumilating.

Steve.

[John Ockleshaw 1Participant @johnockleshaw1]

Hello Bob,

I would suggest the baize has been fixed in place with PVA adhesive ( Polyvinyl acetate).

Regards, John

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

A tool chest that rusts tools is not fit for purpose! Return it and get a refund.

[John MCParticipant @johnmc39344]

Could it be the type of wood? Some types of wood can cause corrosion, I'm sure this has been discussed on the forum.

I have a wooden toolmakers cabinet (Union?) bought some 40 years ago, corrosion has never been a problem even when my workshop was a cold and damp wooden shed.

John

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Posted by John MC on 01/10/2020 08:22:19:

Could it be the type of wood? Some types of wood can cause corrosion, I'm sure this has been discussed on the forum.

I have a wooden toolmakers cabinet (Union?) bought some 40 years ago, corrosion has never been a problem even when my workshop was a cold and damp wooden shed.

John

The tannic acid in Oak can cause corrosion in ferrous materials. Oak is not uncommon for Toolmakers tool chests.

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

A lovely piece of furniture but I don't think it was originally made for storing metal tools.. Buying second hand and not intended for a tool box, it is buyer beware and you cannot expect a refund.

Best option is to seal the drawers or line with a suitable material and coat the tools with an anti rust product. Lots on the market. Lanelin (from sheep wool) used to be what the old timers used. Now availavle in spray cans. Good on your hand also.

Paul.

[John MCParticipant @johnmc39344]

Posted by Paul Lousick on 01/10/2020 08:33:21:

A lovely piece of furniture but I don't think it was originally made for storing metal tools.. Buying second hand and not intended for a tool box, it is buyer beware and you cannot expect a refund.

Those Clarke toolboxes are available new at very reasonable prices, is the OP's box new?

There's one on display in the window of my local branch of Machine Mart (can I say that?).

John

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Paul Lousick on 01/10/2020 08:33:21:

A lovely piece of furniture but I don't think it was originally made for storing metal tools.. Buying second hand and not intended for a tool box, it is buyer beware and you cannot expect a refund.

[…]

.

**LINK**

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clarke-cmw-9b-9-drawer-wooden-machinist-too/

MichaelG.

.

Edit: John MC got there first

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 01/10/2020 08:45:13

[Anthony KnightsParticipant @anthonyknights16741]

I have an identical tool chest (Machine Mart), which I bought to store my measuring equipment. It is kept in the house as my workshop has a damp problem in the winter. I have had no issues with rust, so perhaps it is the location of your chest rather than the chest itself.

Edited By Anthony Knights on 01/10/2020 09:00:32

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Posted by Steviegtr on 01/10/2020 01:59:09:

Buy youreself a small dehumidier. this will take all the damp from the air in your room., This will stop any rust from accumilating.

Steve.

Concur the above 100% for helping to prevent light to moderate surface oxidisation, A "small" dehumidifier is very unlikely to stop rusting as such, unless you have a minute workshop, sealed, with no doors or windows. Having said that, I've had one for around 20 years and wouldn't be without it.

Several points to consider though. Keep windows and doors shut as much as possible, otherwise you'll be demumidifying the world. Consider a unit that has a permanent drain and protect it from freezing. Keep the air intake filter clean (especially if you also do woodwork in the same workshop), Think about a "dessicant" type rather than a "refrigerant" as they can work better at lower temperatures.

[BazParticipant @baz89810]

+1 for desiccant type dehumidifiers, they also give out a little bit of warm air, every little helps when heating the workshop. I used to have a refrigerant type, which worked well but would freeze solid during winter. I collect the water and use it in the loco.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Bob Wild didn't say his tools rusted before they were in the chest, and they only rusted when in contact with the lining. This implies that the workshop is not damp and causing the rust.

These chests are available new, and so Bob may have bought a new one from Clarks. Michael's link shows that they are sold as tool chests.

So, if Bob bought it new, the first step should be to return it to Clarks as not fit for the purpose for which it was sold.

We are all practical types and try to find solutions to problems, but all too often this leads to us accepting unsatisfactory goods from suppliers.

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

I too would suspect the cabinet was somewhat damp on purchase and that attack on the metal looks very much like what PVA does to metal – woodworkers will see similar if you use a bit of steel pin (even if Stainless Steel) to plug the spout in a flexibottle of PVA

Edited By Frances IoM on 01/10/2020 09:27:35

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

It is likely that the baize-like material on the bottom of the drawer is a spray-on coating of some description probably a plastic material either applied as one coat or as a dry flock onto a sprayed on adhesive. Would seem likely that the rusting is caused by an adverse reaction between the coating/adhesive and the tool face.

A few choices, as suggested above return as unfit for purpose, further line the drawers with VLC paper or non-slip drawer liner or scrape off the offending coating and apply a new liner. Leaving the old lining in place it may eventually leach through the new liner. The current lining material may eventually "dry" and the volatile/corrosive agent may go.

Seem unlikely to be the wood as this appears to be pine which is usually benign. Hopefully not the varnish either as this should have lost all the volatile agents by now.

Hope you get the problem sorted as it appears to be quite a useful toolmakers cabinet.

John

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

"Felt-lined drawers keep tools from sliding during transport and help prevent moisture damage to contents " or so the Machine Mart sellers blurb says,

[Brian Matthews 1Participant @brianmatthews1]

Hi Forum

First post here as a new member, I'm actually a woodworker (with aspirations of engineering so be gentle). This looks like it is coming from the glue rather than the wood but difficult to assess from afar! If the wood was not dry it would create a micro-climate within the drawer causing rust to start all over. If your workshop is damp in any way (excluding the summer months) I would avoid storing tools in a wooden cabinet as it will absorb moisture from the air over time, possibly exacerbating the problem. I would remove the baize and replace it with something impervious.

Happy to answer any wood related questions.

Brian

[Rod RenshawParticipant @rodrenshaw28584]

I agree with most of the above as possible reasons for the rust. The chest was most likely made abroad and shipped by sea and stored in unheated warehouse space and so has had every chance to get damp. The OPs workshop may be heated and drier so that the moisture is coming out of the wood and being trapped in the drawer spaces. Also, PVA may have been used to stick the "baise" down and this glue creates acetic acid as it dries (and may decompose releasing Formic acid? ) Perhaps best to locate a newly owned chest ( even an old one)  empty in the space it will occupy and with the drawers out, for a time, and to use VLC paper liners at least for an initial period. All these problems should disappear over time?

Rod

Edited By Rod Renshaw on 01/10/2020 11:25:20

Edited By Rod Renshaw on 01/10/2020 11:26:43

Edited By Rod Renshaw on 01/10/2020 11:28:49

[Douglas JohnstonParticipant @douglasjohnston98463]

I store any items like V blocks in individual small plastic containers. It is not a perfect solution but does keep them safe from mechanical damage and rust. The little plastic pots sold in supermarkets for storing food are perfect and not expensive.

Doug

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Rust often appears where tools are in contact with an absorbent material. Rapid temperature change with moist air can produce condensation which is absorbed by wood, cardboard and baize. It does not then evaporate as the air and object temperatures equalise. I made a wooden rack for my taper shank drills and got a rusty ring where the shank contacted the wood, the rest of the drill did not rust. Cardboard boxes also produce contact rust spots.

Mike

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

My workshop is pretty well sealed – and insulated. I use one small meaco desiccant dehumidifier during the cooler months (will be starting again soon) for usually a couple hours during the night. It warms the workshop a little (only 375W) and keeps the humidity down to a safe level. I use two of them if I go away, to avoid just one filling up or switching off for some reason (they are not the most reliable make but are easy to fix and cheap to buy second hand🙂 ) while I am away.

PVA is neutral and used by schools from nursery upwards, so I doubt it should be a problem – but another glue could have been used.🙂 More likely the fabric is slightly hygroscopic? Not good, however it has occurred. I expect it to be a manufacturing problem and so not fit for purpose. Likely the small print will be trying to protect the sellers from any claims, but….

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Also maybe consider buying some packets of Silica gel. Maybe 1 in each drawer.

It is the time of year for me to start thinking about damp. I have a dehumidifier in the main garage but not in the workshop. I have a tubular greenhouse heater on the wall near the mill , which will stay on over winter. I think they are 60watts per foot. So 120 watts all winter should not break the bank.

Steve.

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