WHERE ARE THE SHAPER USERS ?

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

There's this from Arc Euro, but it looks bit too robust:

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Workholding/Vee-Blocks-Angle-Plates/Tee-Slotted-Angle-Plate-65x5x45

My idea is to weld a pair of webs onto the angle and fit a tenon. Typical Adept quality there's a 1/16 deep by 1/2" machined slot along the middle t-slot, the other two are left wholly as cast and are decidedly wonky!

The drill table works, but does flex too much at least it let me get an idea of how it works and just how much space is needed.

A simple stepper with a belt drive to the feed handle will be easier to set up than fixing a ratchet, just needs a debounced microswitch to operate it.

Neil

[bodgeParticipant @bodge]

There's this from Arc Euro, but it looks bit too robust:

hello Neil

That does look very close to the original Adept table, Bazyle's dimensions are about right, im trying to up lode some pics, might not be successful !

…………..b

[mgnbukParticipant @mgnbuk]

it looks bit too robust

Can you have "too robust" on a shaper ?

Nigel B

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Here you go, Neil …

The Reference Scale is from IKEA's Ultra-Precision range, and should [just] suffice.

More, in this Album **LINK**

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/albums/member_album.asp?a=42334

MichaelG.

[bodgeParticipant @bodge]

it looks bit too robust

Can you have "too robust" on a shaper ?

Nigel B

In a word NO! There is another pic the album……………..b

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

That's great thanks, I had deduced the presence of the tenon!

Not far off the Arc angle plate, really. I wonder what a casting would cost.

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Michael,

​For a moment there I thought IKEA had added to their product range and were now selling Tee slotted things to grace the house contents. After putting on my glasses I can see the graduations on the rule—how disappointing!

Regards
​Brian

Edited By Brian Wood on 30/09/2016 18:20:24

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Brian Wood on 30/09/2016 18:20:06:

For a moment there I thought IKEA had added to their product range and were now selling Tee slotted things to grace the house contents. After putting on my glasses I can see the graduations on the rule—how disappointing!

.

Very useful items, those paper tape measures … Never leave IKEA without grabbing a few.

MichaelG.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

The heart quails at teh thought of an Ikea Angle plate… MDF held together by mazak cams?

N.

[bodgeParticipant @bodge]

Hi Neil

MDF would be ok for making a pattern for getting a casting made, this should reduce the cost as i understand it the cost of making the pattern is usually the most costly part of the process, if you made the cope & drag also out of MDF mazak catches could also be used.

The tee slots look like they are cast in situ then just cleaned up with minimal amount of machining……………….b

[John PParticipant @johnp77052]

Hi Andrew,

I think that the information in the Gears and gear cutting book is just there to
make the point that there must be some clearance between meshed gears ,
just working that out on 20 DP size of gears using the 48 / 52 ratio gives a
backlash of 0.0063 inch ,i would have though that was too much.
Obviously the ideal situation would be to have the correct tooth profile ie
cut to the correct depth so that both gears mesh at pcd with the correct
backlash ,i doubt that could happen if the gears were cut with a ratio of
50 / 50.

The extract taken from a book that i have would seem to suggest what
you have said is correct to get some more backlash is to cut deeper ,the
photo of this is in the gears album.

I think the problem in some cases can be the lack of information ,the hobs
that i use are from Arc euro and have no information as to the infeed depth
only the setting angle for the helix.As i eventually found out the infeed is the
full depth of the cutter to the root in this way the correct tooth form is
generated,using these to make the internal cutter means that there is no
extra length to the cutting tooth to cut the clearance at the root of an internal
gear.

Many of the problems with internal gears seem to be connected to either
interference when cutting with a pinion type cutter where a part of the
tooth is trimmed during the radial infeed ,or where a fitted pinion contacts
the edge during engagement refered to as trochoidal interference .
In both these cases it seems this is related to the difference in the number
of teeth between the pinion and internal gear.As you have pointed out these
connections are related to PA ,addendum and DP.
The book i am refering to indicates a difference of 11 teeth between the
pinion and gear ,this seems to vary in some publications.

The 14 and 21 gears shown in one of the photos have only a 7 tooth
difference but still run together well without interference .i think this
is down to the modified form ,the gears can only be assembled
axially and for that reason the internal form was broached.

Getting back to the shaper part of this thread i am in the process of making
a fabricated shaper ,there are some photo's in my albums ,at present the
project has stalled but when done will have some stepper motors fitted ,like
all of the rest of my cnc machines it runs on Compucut,Richard Bartlett was
kind enough to write a special file to be used on this machine which sets
the ratio to control two rotary tables , one is a proper rotary table and the
other is a cutting head which will fit on the ram,as part of the file the motors
only move on the rearward movement of the ram ,as long as the file runs the
two remain in syncronization. Using a similar 20 tooth cutter to the one
seen cutting the 36 tooth internal gear and using a ratio of 2 to1 equals
40 teeth on the rotary table ,using a ratio of 6.35 equals 127 .One could
see how useful this could be as every tooth number can be generated
from about 32 (internal) upwards to the physical limit of the machine.
It only leaves to problem on producing the cutter ,here again the shaper
comes to the rescue as the machine that i am building will have stepper
motors on the table and the column ,using the table traverse and the rotary
table it becomes possible to traverse and rotate a blank in time to generate
an involute form cutter just using a single point tool ,although the process
would not be quick using a pre-gashed blank would be a sensible option.

I see from an earlier posting the price of some internal cutters can be
£1200 ,i think for most shed men using about 12 pence worth of silver
steel to make a cutter could be an attractive proposition.

It probably seem a lot of work to produce a machine to cut these gear
forms but shapers it seems have many other uses as well as to holding
down a piece of floor.

John

[Gordon AParticipant @gordona]

Neil,

I like your idea of a stepper motor to drive the carriage feed on the Adept 2 shaper. Instead of a de-bounced microswitch, have you considered an inductive proximity sensor to initiate the carriage advance? They appear quite cheap and plentiful on that popular online auction site, I understand that some or all have de-bounce circuitry built in.

Maybe mount one on a sliding bracket on the same axis as the shaper ram so that the position at which the carriage advances can be set to match the stroke.

I have been toying with how to add self act to my machine for quite some time, this could be a good "ancient and modern" solution.

Are there any more owners of this basic machine out there who have modified theirs?

Gordon.

[RICHARD GREEN 2Participant @richardgreen2]

BUMP

[Joseph Noci 1Participant @josephnoci1]

Bump?? – takes an Everest size bump to go back that far.

But, in keeping with the sentiment…

Not an Adept, just a little larger..

Joe

[Andy CarruthersParticipant @andycarruthers33275]

[Mick HenshallParticipant @mickhenshall99321]

And another one

Mick 🇬🇧

[RICHARD GREEN 2Participant @richardgreen2]

I picked up this Invicta 6 MR , 24 inch stroke shaper last year.

[Colin HeseltineParticipant @colinheseltine48622]

My little Corbetts XL 7" Bench Mounted shaper. Picture taken just after reassembled but before it made it to the bench. Was stripped down, cleaned, painted inside and out, then reassembled with new motor and motor mounting plate.

Colin

[RICHARD GREEN 2Participant @richardgreen2]

Nice job Colin, how old do you think the "Corbett" shaper is ?, it looks a useful machine.

[Colin HeseltineParticipant @colinheseltine48622]

Richard,

According to lathes.co.uk they were made between 1953 and 1958. Its a nice little machine, but I still need to sort out a low profile vice and some tooling.

Colin

[Trevor Crossman 1Participant @trevorcrossman1]

Posted by RICHARD GREEN 2 on 05/02/2019 15:19:34:

I picked up this Invicta 6 MR , 24 inch stroke shaper last year

I guess that when it comes to shapers, size does matter !

That Invicta 6 will shift a lot more metal than my little 'ole' Boxford

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

Joining in the old thread resurrection. Before I got a bandsaw, the 10" Royal shaper did a fair bit of work as a power hacksaw:-

[RICHARD GREEN 2Participant @richardgreen2]

Here are some pictures of my Edgwick 20" shaper, machining some parts of a Stuart 6a compound marine engine that I'm building.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Interesting, thanks chiefly to this thread MEW has featured a lot more about shapers in the last 12 months. Issue 278 will see Joe Noci's computerised Alba Shaper as the cover story, hopefully of wider interest than just to shaper fans.

Neil

(Thinking of getting a bumper sticker "Real Men have Shapers" or "My other Mill is a Shaper&quot

[PiotrParticipant @piotr]

One more shaper user checking in! I got a Swedish made Värnamo Prema 02 Shaper. It does a really good job cleaning scrap metal which would either take forever on my bench mill and/or ruin my end mills.

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