WHERE ARE THE SHAPER USERS ?

[Ian McVickersParticipant @ianmcvickers56553]

I do have a manual, looks like someone has reprinted it, for it but it doesn`t show any information on weights or lifting points. I wouldn`t like to lift it with the ram.

Tried Boxford as well but they don`t have any information on their old machines and everyone who knew anything about them has retired.

[Steve PaveyParticipant @stevepavey65865]

Posted by Ian McVickers on 09/03/2021 09:08:00:

Hopefully I should be the owner of a Boxford MK2 8" shaper next week. I see, from the photos, that it has holes through the base which i presume are for lifting it. Can anyone tell me what diameter they are so that I can get some bars set up for it?

Ian

Just measured mine and they are a touch over 28mm diameter, so a couple of 1” bars would be perfect.

[Ian McVickersParticipant @ianmcvickers56553]

Thanks very much Steve.

Ian

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I don't think the shaper would go much on being lifted by the ram, either!

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Looked at DRO stuff recently but the prices were a bit on the high side for an experiment

So I got a couple of cheapies and I'm very impressed with my first impressions, they are good to a couple of hundredths of a mm without any serious effort on my old jalopy

edit:

The cheap dros are in a different league to calipers, they feel better and record movement far more readily

Edited By Ady1 on 10/03/2021 17:16:20

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

The idea of lifting by the ram is not mine – It's from the Elliot 10M handbook. I quote -" It is important to sling the machine correctly and Fig1 shows the method we recommend. Remove the ram guards and set ram so that the endof the Vslide is just inside body guides at the front of the machine. Sling under ram casting at the front and ram Vees at the rear as shown". Having been trapped when a 10M toppled I can vouch for the fact that mounted on a pressed steel cabinet the machine is VERY top heavy. Lifting with the weight above the C of G is to invite disaster!!!!    Noel

Edited By noel shelley on 10/03/2021 18:08:04

Edited By noel shelley on 10/03/2021 18:12:08

[RICHARD GREEN 2Participant @richardgreen2]

Posted by RICHARD GREEN 2 on 04/03/2021 17:35:13:

I've got a Klopp 34" shaper made in Germany, I would like to swap it for an open crank oil engine possibly 5 horse power or larger, what have you got ? anything consisered , e-mail me on, robertg.green@virgin.net

The Klopp shaper is now sold

[Ian McVickersParticipant @ianmcvickers56553]

My Boxford shaper has arrived and has had the electrics removed so that I can replace them with some more modern stuff. I would have liked to remove the table but cant get the internal nut off. The previous owner has pinned it through the shaft.

Had a go at punching it our but its solid. The nut has a grub screw so I dont know why the pin was fitted.

Can anyone tell me how to remove the table drive assembly shown below.

The bush on the front of it had also been pinned with a taper pin which came out easily enough but I cant get the assembly off the shaft, The outer bracket and spacer rotate on the shaft but the pinion does not which I think is correct. I presume the pinion is keyed but cant get it off. Since the cast bracket has already been repaired I didnt want to force it.

[Alan MellorParticipant @alanmellor68824]

Hi, have you downloaded the drawings from Boxford's website?

[Ian McVickersParticipant @ianmcvickers56553]

Alan,

I did contact Boxford and they said they dont have any information left for the shaper. I will have a look on their site and see if I can find them.

[Ian McVickersParticipant @ianmcvickers56553]

Alan,

thanks for the info. I managed to find the drawings on their site. They arent too clear but it looks like I`m missing some parts for the vertical drive. If anyone has the version with both table feeds could they possibly take a photo of the gearing and post it please.

Also it looks like the taper pins are supposed to be fitted.

Edited By Ian McVickers on 20/03/2021 17:57:39

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Vertical feed is obtained by sliding the sleeve gear from its shaft and refitting it to the lower vacant shaft. Will try to take photos tomorrow.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

First photo vert feed second horizon feed

[Ian McVickersParticipant @ianmcvickers56553]

Thanks Bernard.

I managed to get it removed today without any hassle. No idea what was wrong before. Im going to have to get the bracket brazed as now i`ve got it removed I can see the break and it needs a better fix.

[Ian McVickersParticipant @ianmcvickers56553]

Shaper as delivered

Shaper nearly finished.

Still have the vice to look at and need to get the table off and cleaned and painted.

Electrics are all done and it runs nice and smoothly.

[Ian McVickersParticipant @ianmcvickers56553]

Still hijacking this thread a bit… Had a go at tig brazing the cast bracket and it turned out ok.

After welding left it on the heater overnight to gradually cool. The material ended up being rather hard around the weld so had to grind it down.

A bit of machining to get the hole round again and its ready for painting.

[Ian McVickersParticipant @ianmcvickers56553]

So finished off the shaper and tested it out today on some ali and mild steel.

0.5mm deep cut on ali.

1mm deep cut with wd40 beside the 0.5mm deep cut.

0.5mm deep cut on mild steel witrh wd40.

Both parts side by side. Impressed by the cut quality.

[William AyerstParticipant @williamayerst55662]

So, I've got an ML7 and drill press and generally feel like I've got most machining needs covered. One thing that is a bit of a pain is setting up back and forth between turning and milling on the lathe. I'm after some vintage british / euro gear and I've had my eye on some horizontal-and-vertical lathes like the Tom Senior, Centec 2B, etc. – but my heart keeps coming back to shapers.

I'm all about analogue, no DROs or digital equipment at all in my workshop, and it appeals to me alot – but it must also do work. So, if only had a shaper, lathe and drill press – what am I missing in terms of machining actions which are either a) impossible or b) a real faff?

I'm thinking of something like the Elliot 10M or smaller.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

what am I missing in terms of machining actions which are either a) impossible or b) a real faff?

The biggie I can think of is the ability to do vertical and Horizontal indexing work on a workpiece

Especially useful on a shaper or a mill

[William AyerstParticipant @williamayerst55662]

Ah, good point Ady.

Thinking about it though, a dividing head could fit on the lathe (i.e. the Hemginway 'VDH&#39 or a shaper, couldn't it? That's not something a mill can do that a shaper can't, right?

Thank you!

[BufferParticipant @buffer]

I have a Tom senior mill and a shaper. The shaper is very slow compared to a mill. You can't easily edge find on a shaper like you can with a wobbler on a mill. You cant coordinate drill holes, into parts you cant bore holes. Squaring stock is much much slower on a shaper. On a mill I can do most of four sides in one go on a shaper it takes ages. I would never preference a shaper over a mill. And if you have the cash to spend do yourself a favour and get that Tom senior and fit a dro. You'd never look back as you would make parts so much quicker probably with less scrap and maybe more accuracy. Having said that I plan to keep my shaper for novelty value more than anything. I used it this week to rough out iron axle boxe castings before finishing on the mill.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Posted by Buffer on 18/06/2021 16:30:41:

I have a Tom senior mill and a shaper. The shaper is very slow compared to a mill. You can't easily edge find on a shaper like you can with a wobbler on a mill. You cant coordinate drill holes, into parts you cant bore holes. Squaring stock is much much slower on a shaper. On a mill I can do most of four sides in one go on a shaper it takes ages. I would never preference a shaper over a mill. And if you have the cash to spend do yourself a favour and get that Tom senior and fit a dro. You'd never look back as you would make parts so much quicker probably with less scrap and maybe more accuracy. Having said that I plan to keep my shaper for novelty value more than anything. I used it this week to rough out iron axle boxe castings before finishing on the mill.

Buffer is right William, you will get a lot more done if you go semi-modern

By all means hang onto the traditional stuff too

Time is the one thing we can't afford to waste at our age kinda thing

[David Harris 8Participant @davidharris8]

Took a run down south to pick up the new machine a couple of weeks ago.

Edited By David Harris 8 on 18/06/2021 20:36:03

[William AyerstParticipant @williamayerst55662]

Thank you for the advice, the shaper certainly seems romantic but if it really is going to be significantly less useful, it may have to wait!

[Joseph Noci 1Participant @josephnoci1]

Posted by Buffer on 18/06/2021 16:30:41:

I have a Tom senior mill and a shaper. The shaper is very slow compared to a mill.

Generally true, but it would depend on the type and size of the milling machine and Shaper… William does not specify which Tom Senior – digging on Google, there seems to be a few variants? – the M1 might move metal faster than most shapers, but I am not even sure of that, if referenced to say an ALBA 2S or Elliot 14M shaper, both types in a number of hobby shops… The Senior E type certainly will not…

My ALBA 2S can take slice a chip of cross section 3×1.5mm in mild steel without burping. And it will do that over a 300mm length in a few seconds- No way I can do that on my bench top mill..I don't agree about it being difficult to find an edge on the workpiece – very easy – use a sliver of the proverbial fag paper and wind the cross slide up to the cutter till the paper is snagged – many folk do that on the mill!

Also, the cutters for the shapers are much easier to make and much cheaper than endmills of big-cut capability. And easy to sharpen. And you can even use them in the lathe..

I would not be without my Shaper if I can help it!  But, I could not do without my benchtop mill either!.

I think there is a balance – if you can afford a big mill with heft capability, you can probably afford the cost of tooling it – collets, cutters ( HSS, Carbide, ) etc then a Shaper is moot. But if you can't, a shaper is an inexpensive solution to hogging metal in preparation for finer work on the small mill.

And since DRO's are mentioned – if you fit a DRO to the shaper, you will be amazed at how accurate you can work.

Joe

Edited By Joseph Noci 1 on 19/06/2021 10:43:54

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