WHERE ARE THE SHAPER USERS ?

[RICHARD GREEN 2Participant @richardgreen2]

We havn't heard much from the shaper users lately, are there any shaper restoration projects going on ? or any interesting shaper jobs,

Richard.

[RICHARD GREEN 2Participant @richardgreen2]

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I was just getting started with my Adept No.2 when that Swiss pantograph-cum-mill turned up, demanding my attention.

… Hope to get on with the Adept over the winter.

Dave's screw-slotting jig would be a nice job to do in the shaper

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=120623&p=1

['though, having a shaper, you may not need the jig]

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 16/09/2016 12:07:45

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

I saw the recent ad on this site for a Perfecto shaper. It got me wondering what operations were only possible with a shaper. Things like keyways and splines in gears and pulleys come to mind as a good reason to use one but I was wondering how much work that is now done on vertical milling machines was previously done with shapers as people could not get a milling machine so easily in the past.

So the question for someone with a shaper is what would be a must have reason for buying one?

Martin

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Hold a piece of floor down until a better machine comes along

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

They are good at producing flat surfaces – pretty extremely flat if the ram is any good. The finish compared with the simple end of milling can also be better – it's a sort of flat lathe so can produce work with the same degree of finish.

They can be used to make dovetail slides by attaching rope come string to lift the tool on the return stroke. Getting it wrong can make a bit of a mess. I've seen that happen.

They can cut keyways. Internal ones need the cutter on a bar that can pass through the bore and if blind ended they need to run into a hole or slot etc.

Angled work without much complication.

The main reason they fell out of use is metal removal rates even on big meaty ones that can take a rather large cut. Mostly down to using a single point tool and only cutting in one direction. Plus want a better finish stick it on a grinder. Flatness isn't so simple.

I have a nice little one but no room to erect it.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 16/09/2016 14:21:45

Edited By Ajohnw on 16/09/2016 14:23:08

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I wondered if this one had sold – bit of a bargain I suspect.

**LINK**

John

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[RICHARD GREEN 2Participant @richardgreen2]

iT'S NOW £85.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Easy peasy tooling, just grind it up and remove huge amounts of guffy hard metal

Nice to watch

Produces proper flat surfaces, you get none of those whirly things on the surface of your workpiece like you get after milling.

Secondary jobs are very accurate because you can remove the individual electrons from metal atoms

A shaper improves your sex life

More recently I have found that that 5% cobalt tooling has fabulous resistance to wear when used on a shaper

EDIT The main reason industry stopped using shapers is because mills were more suited to mass production methods and in most industrial situations faster

Edited By Ady1 on 16/09/2016 14:35:39

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by RICHARD GREEN 2 on 16/09/2016 14:24:41:

iT'S NOW £85.

This is the sort you want.

From memory they may have the box on the wrong way and the vice isn't correct either. T – Slots across and fixed jaw taking the cutting load.. Don't think there is much worry on both scores on small ones but the fixed jaw aspect might matter.

It was one of that sort of size that I saw messed up cutting a dovetail in a replacement lathe cross slide.

John

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[Ady1Participant @ady1]

If you get it wrong on a big shaper it can take the table right off (so I've heard)

Even the small ones pack quite a punch and really don't tolerate mistakes

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

I would always want the t-slots going longways in line with the ram so the machine shoves the job and the vice off the end of the table if it takes too big a bite

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Martin Connelly on 16/09/2016 13:30:01:

So the question for someone with a shaper is what would be a must have reason for buying one?

.

The two things that most interested me were:

1. Making small dovetail slides
2. Cutting Involute gears, by 'generating'

http://neme-s.org/Shaper%20Books/Michael_Moore/shaper%20gear%20cut.pdf

[Both currently on the back-burner, as mentioned above]

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 16/09/2016 15:00:40

[RICHARD GREEN 2Participant @richardgreen2]

John,

I've got an Edgwick 20", I'm going to restore it soon.

Richard

[RICHARD GREEN 2Participant @richardgreen2]

I've also got a 10" stroke "Royal" shaper, needs a few maintenance jobs doing , but is usable .

It has power cross feed, and also power vertical feed to the table.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Richard,

You will presumably be making bigger stuff than me and my little Adept

MichaelG.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

You didn't bring the first one home on a shopping trolley Richard.

From memory mine covers around a 10" square table and has the power cross feed. Rather large for bench mounting. I can't remember the make without digging it out. I bought it from a junk shop a fair old time ago just before I gave up working in the garage. We've been trying to get a builder to replace the roof on it for nearly 2 years. It's much worse since I moved my stuff out.

You need to think in terms of having a sort of powered scraper Michael. Don't ask me about tooling as I have very very little experience with them. As an instructor said " They don't make any use of them these days but I'll tell you something, They are very good at producing flat surface that need very little work on them. Often none at all" He was referring to scraping and bluing flats on a master surface plate. That from an extremely skilled bench fitter as well.

The sort of thing I intended to make on mine were things like V blocks and Keat's angle plates and items like that. Also angle plates and boxes if needed.

John

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[RICHARD GREEN 2Participant @richardgreen2]

John,

We brought it home on a trailer………………..something like this…………

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Ajohnw on 16/09/2016 15:56:29:

You need to think in terms of having a sort of powered scraper

.

Assuming that you mean shaper, John

I'm quite happy with the hand powered one, thank you.

MichaelG.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

No Michael I didn't. It might be worth bearing in mind that those wonderful old scraped machine slides were often made on a similar machine – a planer and the hand scraping in real terms is just frosting.

Probably a contentious point with some but I'll stick to it.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 16/09/2016 16:32:06

[loco manParticipant @locoman67579]

Although having two milling machines (both, 'warco', Super Major, and WM12) I still find that my little Corbett 7" stroke shaper of much use. When I was serving my apprenticeship in the mid 60's there was a general feeling that to set up in a shaper took five minutes and to machine the job took an hour. The reverse was the case with the milling machine. One area that I feel that the shaper has over the milling machine is the ease of tooling/tool grinding. In some cases a suitable lathe tool goes straIght into the shaper toolholder (aka clapper box?) Much easier to regrind by hand than a slot drill/end mill. My considered feelings are that both milling machines and shapers have their own places/homes in the workshop and I would hate to be with out either.

Ian

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Ajohnw on 16/09/2016 16:31:38:

No Michael I didn't.

.

I stand corrected, John

MichaelG.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Handy for making gears.

If you need one gear then use a shaper to make 3 or 4 at the same time and part off on the lathe

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

One heck of a machine Richard, should keep you busy for a few days….yikes

They're great for tough jobs where a nice accurate mill would be taxed and receive un-necessary wear and tear, the shaper is a machine shop workhorse which uses simple tools and can last a lifetime

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

A lot of work carried out on a milling machine using expensive end mills and the like can be done just as well (with better finishes in many cases) on a shaper using a single point tool easily resharpened on an off hand grinder.

I do admit though to having a soft spot for these “dinosaurs” of the machine shop (as I recently heard them described). A shaper was the very first machine tool I was let loose on as a young apprentice and the love affair continues. Click the link and scroll down to see my refurb.

**LINK**

[Author]

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