Wheels or frame for power hacksaw

[AJAXParticipant @ajax]

Some of you may know I have a Rapidor Power Hacksaw in my home workshop. It's an old machine but works very well and is pleasant to use. The downside of these machines is they are heavy and occupy floorspace but I've made it mobile by mounting it on a wooden frame that can be moved with a pallet truck when I need to cut longer sections which have in the past included RSJ beams.

I've now bought a second power hacksaw (couldn't resist the price!) and will probably be selling the Rapidor in due course. The new Qualters and Smith machine is much heavier (I'd guess twice the weight – it weighs 340 kg) and has a hydraulic lift / relief mechanism. It also has a coolant pump, although I've always managed without on the Rapidor.

We have the same Q&S hacksaw at work where it is firmly bolted to the concrete floor. This is not an option in my workshop and so I plan to fabricate another mobile platform. If I include wheels, they will need to be low profile or retractable. If not retractable, I would need to wedge the frame to stop movement or lever the frame up onto supporting blocks, if that makes sense.

I would be very interested to know what others have done with machines of a similar weight.

I had to make a couple of minor repairs / modifications to the hydraulic relief mechanism, and if you are interested to see the hacksaw have made a short video. So far it has cost me £50 plus petrol.

[AJAXParticipant @ajax]

Qualters and Smith 6H

[AJAXParticipant @ajax]

I'd be interested to hear from anyone with a service manual for the Q&S 6H power hacksaw.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Split the star point and buy a VFD?

Edited By not done it yet on 15/11/2020 12:21:39

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Regarding the wheels/wedge issue. Could you encorporate a set of 4 overcentre lever stands on the four corners that lift the wheels clear similar to a mortorcycle track stand. Just a thought but maybe one worth considering.

regards Martin

[AJAXParticipant @ajax]

Posted by not done it yet on 15/11/2020 12:21:21:

Split the star point and buy a VFD?

Edited By not done it yet on 15/11/2020 12:21:39

I realise that "anything is possible" if you have the knowledge and skills, but I was under the impression that splitting the star was generally difficult and/or not recommended. In this particular instance I prefer to scrap the motor as it had a number of issues that became apparent on closer inspection, but I would certainly be interested to know more about this modification.

I have already have two VFDs and plan to share one of them with the hacksaw.

Alternatively, and not entirely ruled out, I have a couple of spare DC motors that would easily fit in the cabinet. They may however run a bit fast for what I need.

[AJAXParticipant @ajax]

Posted by Martin Kyte on 15/11/2020 12:30:55:

Regarding the wheels/wedge issue. Could you encorporate a set of 4 overcentre lever stands on the four corners that lift the wheels clear similar to a mortorcycle track stand. Just a thought but maybe one worth considering.

regards Martin

Thanks for the suggestion, Martin. Someone on Facebook has now posted some images of their saw with a similar idea. Once I've seen a few more pictures I'll be ready to start fabricating.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Might be simpler to do what they do on motorcycle lift benches that have castor wheels. A simple screw jack at each corner that you screw down until the jack contacts the floor and takes the weight off the castor next to it. Screw jack is simply about 8 inches of half inch threaded rod with a round "foot" on one end and a cross handle on the other to crank it with. It runs through a threaded boss welded to the framework of the table base . Simple but very effective. This one's a bit lighter duty than mine but same principle: **LINK**

[KW56Participant @kw56]

This sort of castors would suit your purpose although they would raise the height of the machine unless you made brackets or a frame so that they were at the side of the machine

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4PCS-Set-Swivel-Heavy-Duty-Machine-Levelling-Castors-Wheels-500kg-1000kg-UK/223894282603?hash=item342123a16b:g:tQkAAOSwxZteYbhP

They are available from other suppliers.

Regards

Kevin

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

I split the star point on my surface grinder motor just this last month. That one was quite easy to do. I have another set of windings at my feet just now which look to be a bit (even a lot) more challenging. I am competent but not an electrician.

I expect that if I go very carefully I will be able to tease out the star point without damaging the windings. Reconfiguring the wiring to delta may be a bit fiddly but is at least entirely straightforward, technically.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. A VFD might cost fifty quid – providing variable speed selection, soft start, overload protection, among other benefits.

Motors, particularly 3 phase ones, don’t really wear out. They have usually been mistreated or neglected in some way if they fail.

[peak4Participant @peak4]

I've a Denbigh power hacksaw myself, so similar in size to the Manchester, maybe a tad larger.
When it arrived, it came with two lengths of rectangular box section bolted across the feet, and a couple of outboard casters.
It still sits on then so I can move it around, but if I want it in one place for a while, I just lever up one end with a tall wheeled heel crowbar and drop it on a couple of wooden blocks.

Both my "spare" Myford and the Boxford shaper are mounted on an arrangement like this, using a few lengths of threaded rod to pinch the angle brackets together at the bottom, and bear the weight of the machine.

As you can see, one can just wind up the feet with a ½" speedbrace, a UJ, and suitable socket, leaving the machine on four bits of ply to protect the floor paint.

The Centec, on a substantial bench with heavily loaded shelves, has another four of those casters, but fastened directly to the bench.
My Dore Westbury has a similar arrangement, but with lighter duty castors. The Dore also has four of the screw down levelling feet (which I also use on the bigger Warco GH1330, though that's not on wheels.)

Bill

Edited By peak4 on 15/11/2020 14:09:59

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Given the weight and lift needed to clear the wheels or castors the lever length needed to give reasonably easy operation of over centre stand type jacks may be inconvenient.

Due to the reciprocating action shaking it about it's probably best to have the machine sitting solidly on its base when working rather than on legs and jack up onto the wheels / castors to move it around.

The big Newport Optical Tables we had in the lab had a very effective screw operated system to lift them onto castors to move around. The castors were on pivoted plates carried in the inverted U section channels joining the legs. A vertical screw pivoted the castor carrying plate down to lift the assembly up to move it.

Perhaps 3/4"or so of lift needed to bring the castor carrier plates below the sides of the channels enabling full 360° swivel. Jack screw size of 7/16" or 1/2" UNF sounds about right. Castor pivots about 3/8" and castor plates maybe 3" x 4" in1/8" thick steel. The castors were unusual in having wide wheels despite relatively small diameter. According to the drawings the wheels were 3" diameter, memory says almost as wide, perhaps 2 3/4".

The Newport drawings may be inspirational **LINK**

https://www.newport.com/mam/celum/celum_assets/resources/TB-TBC.pdf?1.

As I recall it the jack screws ran through a simple plate nut floating in the U channel. I guess the fairly small arc that the pate moved through going from parked to horizontal didn't need a proper pivoting mount for the nut to cope.

I imagine an over centre eccentric would work as well as the screw. Put it on a shaft with a suitably large hexagon on the end and use a socket on a long breaker bar to turn it. Or grab the emergency wheel nut removal telescopic handle dooby out of the car.

It would seem fairly easy to fabricate something functionally equivalent to the Newport system for your saw.

I'd weld an angle iron frame for the saw to sit in with the flats down on the ground and outrigger the castor units in "boxes" at front and rear. That way side to side twist loads feed into the front and rear angles instead of trying to bend the sides. 2" angle ought to be more than ample.

Hardest job will be finding castors with modest diameter, wide wheels. i've been looking for some time!

Clive

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Posted by Clive Foster on 15/11/2020 14:13:47:

………………

Hardest job will be finding castors with modest diameter, wide wheels. i've been looking for some time!

Clive

Clive, I've not tried searching for them, as I have enough already, but the ones in my post above yours were used for the delivery of loaded 19" rack mount telecom cabinets. Wheel into place, lower to ground and unbolt the angle brackets.
I don't know the all-up weight of a pre-loaded cabinet, but certainly up to their new re-purposed life.

Bill

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Bill

I know the type you used. Got to be a supplier somewhere.

Not sure that they are ideal for workshop use tho' as the screw can bend if the castor rams up against something forgotten on the floor!

Seen it done with a rack mount cabinet hitting a small step in a doorway when propelled by erks with more enthusiasm than sense. Stopped by the angle iron foot hitting the step they pulled back, wound the castors up to full height and took a short run up to get it in!

I was not amused at having to straighten things out.

Clive

[AJAXParticipant @ajax]

Posted by KW56 on 15/11/2020 13:19:49:

This sort of castors would suit your purpose although they would raise the height of the machine unless you made brackets or a frame so that they were at the side of the machine

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4PCS-Set-Swivel-Heavy-Duty-Machine-Levelling-Castors-Wheels-500kg-1000kg-UK/223894282603?hash=item342123a16b:g:tQkAAOSwxZteYbhP

They are available from other suppliers.

Regards

Kevin

Thanks, Kevin. I have plenty of wheels / castors, and I'm now thinking some form of over-centre lift mechanism may be best.

[AJAXParticipant @ajax]

Posted by not done it yet on 15/11/2020 13:57:34:

I split the star point on my surface grinder motor just this last month. That one was quite easy to do. I have another set of windings at my feet just now which look to be a bit (even a lot) more challenging. I am competent but not an electrician.

I expect that if I go very carefully I will be able to tease out the star point without damaging the windings. Reconfiguring the wiring to delta may be a bit fiddly but is at least entirely straightforward, technically.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. A VFD might cost fifty quid – providing variable speed selection, soft start, overload protection, among other benefits.

Motors, particularly 3 phase ones, don’t really wear out. They have usually been mistreated or neglected in some way if they fail.

I will very likely be using an existing VFD, shared with another machine. I have a three phase trailing socket on the VFD output so it's easy to connect / disconnect and share with other machines.

Next time I come across a star wired motor I may take a look at rewiring. Thanks for your suggestions.

Brian

[AJAXParticipant @ajax]

Posted by Clive Foster on 15/11/2020 14:13:47:

Hardest job will be finding castors with modest diameter, wide wheels. i've been looking for some time!

Clive

Clive,

I've posted questions about this saw elsewhere and one owner uses solid metal castors. I suppose it wouldn't be that difficult to turn your own if you have stock of a suitable size. They also mentioned rubber feet and regarded them as essential.

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Dont see what,s wrong with a set of simple castors, two plain two locking, foot operated.

I have two bandsaws, one mortice machine, one bench saw [not small ] all mounted on castors.

St ill waiting for any of them to fall over. Castors come in many sizes and there is one out there to suit your need.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

larry

Its not falling over thats the issue with a power hacksaw on castors.

Its stopping the beast from walking across the workshop!

My Rapidor is a later type with a heavy cast iron full base sitting direct on the floor rather than the lighter legs of the earlier versions but I still had to screw a stop to the floor to stop it wandering over to see what I was doing on the other side of the workshop.

Shifted maybe 1/8" or so per couple of inches of cut due to the reciprocating inertia.

Version 1 of the stop used a couple of 4 mm screws. Which it promply snapped. Version 2 uses four 6 mm ones, like the stop for Elliott 10" my shaper. It is holding. Sto far!

The Q&S AJAX has is much heftier with a very heavy bow. Locked up castors will do nothing to stop that moving.

Clive

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Perhaps a hacksaw is more prone to creep than a bandsaw, due to the action of the blade ?

I dont have one, only bandsaws, and once those castors are locked the machine never moves.

Food for thought.

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

Ajax you mention that you have a pallet truck to move your rapidor ,why cant you use it to move the bigger saw. One way a friend got over the problem of getting enough space to saw up long work was to place the saw out in the garden,abd covered it with a shed like a dog kennel,it had four wheels and could be just wheeled away from the saw.

[AJAXParticipant @ajax]

Posted by Nigel McBurney 1 on 17/11/2020 10:31:49:

Ajax you mention that you have a pallet truck to move your rapidor ,why cant you use it to move the bigger saw. One way a friend got over the problem of getting enough space to saw up long work was to place the saw out in the garden,abd covered it with a shed like a dog kennel,it had four wheels and could be just wheeled away from the saw.

I've used the pallet truck but it's not ideal as it's a lightweight mechanical truck rated for 300kg if I remember correctly. I'd rather have the saw on wheels with a wider base.

I like the kennel idea and would consider something similar when I get my garden sorted.

[AJAXParticipant @ajax]

Posted by Clive Foster on 16/11/2020 15:10:20:

larry

Its not falling over thats the issue with a power hacksaw on castors.

Its stopping the beast from walking across the workshop!

My Rapidor is a later type with a heavy cast iron full base sitting direct on the floor rather than the lighter legs of the earlier versions but I still had to screw a stop to the floor to stop it wandering over to see what I was doing on the other side of the workshop.

Shifted maybe 1/8" or so per couple of inches of cut due to the reciprocating inertia.

Version 1 of the stop used a couple of 4 mm screws. Which it promply snapped. Version 2 uses four 6 mm ones, like the stop for Elliott 10" my shaper. It is holding. Sto far!

The Q&S AJAX has is much heftier with a very heavy bow. Locked up castors will do nothing to stop that moving.

Clive

My rapidor runs relatively slowly and never budges. The q&s we have at work runs much faster and it's rightly bolted down. I plan to run the q&s slowly at home and will be surprised if it moves. But let's see!

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