Wheel casting/making

[Chris HammondParticipant @chrishammond37041]

[Chris HammondParticipant @chrishammond37041]

hello

Have any of you chaps made your own locomotive wheels? I am considering making my own for a 7/8 scale American locomotive.

I wondered if it is a realistic proposition for the home builder. I don't have CAD/CNC capability at the moment.

Look forward to your advice and guidance.

Chris

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Theres an interesting article in this coming months release of MEW I believe, on castings that may interest you. Might want to hold out for that when it gets to you.

However, to begin with you're probably thinking about casting iron, in the old days they made patterns out of wood and moulded them in sand by two halves.

The quality of the casting sand has probably improved markedly in modern production since the Victorian days, so i'm not sure what they use now, but I would imagine as far as sand goes building sand would've been the traditional equivalent?

Michael W

Edited By Michael-w on 23/01/2017 23:53:54

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

I got my latest ones done at a foundry in Wigan, very simple disc wheels, but he will do spokes if he really has to. As the patterns were dead simple I made 4 which halved the cost as he could do them all in one pour. If I do anything more complicated I'll get #2 son to 3D print the patterns in plastic

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

If you do not have a #2 son like Duncan, you could have 3D patterns printed by someone else. Lots of commercial 3D printer shops nowdays. And also as stated, the cost of castings is normally per pour, so have a copy printed for each wheel and cast them all together.

You cauld have them cast in cast iron or you could use aluminium and fit steel tires (full size engines had tires on the wheels)

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Given that the wheels are inside the frames and there is a significant overhang on the narrow gauge loco you won't easily see the wheels so they could be cut from CI bar and not have spokes.

EDIT just looked at teh drawings, the inside frame version does not have spokes so do as above, simples.

[Chris HammondParticipant @chrishammond37041]

Thanks all – for this loco – CI bar it is. (As Jason notes thankfullu no spokes which is good for a first loco!) however I do like the idea of 3D printing patterns for future parts. I will investigate,

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

After a chat with Chris it seems I missed a bit on the drawing that said 15 spokes although they are not shown so any more suggestions re casting or machining the spokes will be welcome.

J

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

There are small gas furnaces you can buy on ebay that you can couple to a propane bottle, some open hearth style ones are intended for forging knives, but the "pot" style ones with the lid on top can be used for smelting iron outdoors.

The lining is mainly "kaowool" or ceramic type high temperature felt and a steel outer shell. You can make them yourself if you're so inclined.

The cost of one is around £200, it sounds like it's just a can and lining with a hose attachment but there's more to it than that, as it uses an air choke to get the furnace even hotter.

To be honest the cost of buying all the felt alone is around £50, plus all the fittings and container, it's not a bad price considering the labour. Just thought i'd share that discovery.

Michael W

[clogsParticipant @clogs]

Hi all,

I think doubleboost has a DIY foundry pot/ furnace on "youtube" if that's not a dirty word…….

Clogs……….

[TomfileryParticipant @tomfilery]

Chris,

I sometimes do it the hard way – i.e. cut from solid!

It all depends on what kit you have. If you have a rotary table and pillar drill/ mill it becomes relatively easy – oh, and have access to CAD so you can plan where all the holes have to go!

I make railway models in 16mm/foot scale and wanted to make some Irish 3 foot gauge wagons. I couldn't get suitable sized spoked wheels (finished tread size 32mm dia), so I made my own.

I first drew the wheels out in Turbocad and then messed around with hole diameters and positions to create something near to what was needed. A key thing was to position all holes on whole degrees around the wheel (just to keep it simple when whizzing the rotary table round). Having drilled the holes, I put a mill in the drill chuck (naughty me – but if you are careful it is Ok) and removed the bulk of the unwanted material – again, I used Turbocad to work out where to place the mill and only plunged a single hole (rather than attempting to mill a shape). See the picture below and it should make sense. Each triangle is made up of three holes (where spokes meet the rim or hub) and a central, larger hole where I plunged the milling cutter.

Having got my roughed out spokes (on the left above) I then filed them to shape (the one on the right). It took just over an hour per wheel and I did it whilst on holiday, away from my machine tools (I do have a vice in my holiday home). A not very good picture of the result is below.

It is a lot of work, but satisfying. Just for a laugh I did a split spoke wheel as well – the third picture in my Wheels album.

As Jason B pointed out, if the loco has outside frames, you aren't going to see much of the spokes, so you are more likely to get away with plain spokes (rather than oval)

Hope this helps

Regards Tom

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Does anyone know the name of the saw that is like a round file in a small hacksaw frame? That would be good for cutting the webs between the drilled holes in the spoke shapes?

Michael W

[Richard MarksParticipant @richardmarks80868]

Abrafile!

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by Richard Marks on 24/01/2017 18:21:25:

Abrafile!

It sounds so goofy I thought it might be a joke!

Thanks, think theres someone on ebay selling the files for the junior hacksaw.

Michael W

[the artfull-codgerParticipant @theartfull-codger]

I have a meddings industrial scroll/fret saw [a much underrated machine]& use cut up bandsaw blades & metal cutting coping saw blades, you could use a scroll saw with speed reduction & use metal cutting coping saw blades by cutting the ends off to fit the saw,it's surprising how good they can cut metal, allthough I built a small propane fired furnace my main casting furnace is coke fired & I've never bothered to change to expensive propane, it melts iron ok I built it over 40 yrs ago with instructions from my hero, "the master" b terry aspin ,no internet to make everyone an "expert" then.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

I think you will find that Abrafiles are no longer made, just some hard coated wire for cutting tiles!

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

The ones on ebay to appear to be real "New Old Stock" Abrafiles. Michael, if you are tempted to go for them get the clips that are offered elsewhere as well – they will fit into a 10" hacksaw frame.

I've been hoarding mine – so much so that I will not use them even if I should

Rod

[Chris HammondParticipant @chrishammond37041]

Thanks gents for the advice.

I do fancy having a go at casting. A friend can print a 3D master for me – so next job will be making a small furnace. I'll keep you posted on progress.

What would you recommend for bearings?

Tom – they are lovely wheels. Thanks for sharing. I may take the cut/drill/file route if the casting doesnt prove successful.

My main reason for getting to grips now is learning for the Shay gear system.

 

Edited By Chris Hammond on 24/01/2017 22:04:55

[Chris HammondParticipant @chrishammond37041]

Duncan – could you give me contact details for the foundary please? Be worth getting a quote before I singe my eyebrows!

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Chris

I've sent you a pm

[Chris HammondParticipant @chrishammond37041]

Thanks Duncan. Replied.

[Brian OldfordParticipant @brianoldford70365]

An alternative might be. http://modelenginenews.org/meng/edm/p1.html

[Tinus DeyselParticipant @tinusdeysel21051]

I carved a loco wheel of 7.5 inches dia out of a beeswax/candle wax block,then added wax counterweight,then embedded this in fire cement to make a provisional mould.When the fire cement set ,it warmed up enough to melt out the wax.I then cast a hard lead alloy(mostly wheelweights) in this. The lead alloy wheel was then cleaned up and the spokes tapered from front to back,and used as pattern to cast aluminium in green sand.The alu pattern(three, with differing counterweights)were given to a local foundry who produced beautiful wheel castings for eventual use in my USRA 0-8-0 tender switcher in 7.25 gauge now finally under construction(if hacksawing and filing 20 mm thick bar frames could be called construction!

[Chris HammondParticipant @chrishammond37041]

Thanks for the info Tinus.

I've had a price in from one foundry so far – looking around the £16 per wheel mark, which, I guess for the work involved is reasonable.

However, thinking back to what Jason mentioned, as the wheels are hidden by counterweights, I may be tempted, to turn them out of bar stock as solids.

Does that make sense or would I be asked to leave the locomotive purist guild?

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