‘What LatheXXXXX sorry 3D Printer should I buy’

[Joseph Noci 1Participant @josephnoci1]

Ian,

Ditto on the dual use – I would not recommend that. Such a setup may do duty as an engraver in light materials, but not as a router. Total lack of rigidity and strength.

Mach-3 is not a G-Code generator – it interprets G-code and converts it to co-ordinated moves of the axis by driving Steppers or servos – For example, if you have a PC running Mach, and the PC has a parallel printer port, that port is set up to drive stepper controllers using step and direction pulses. You do not need any other arduini or the like type hardware. These days ,due to lack of par ports on PC's, there are USB or Network connected modules that interface with Mach, and then do the task of driving the stepper controllers. I use Mach 3 on my PCB engrave and my larger router, both using old, got for free, laptops, running XP, and with parallel ports – it works fine! – check my albums for views into both machines. I also converted an EMCO FB-2 mill to full CNC in the same way. I can recommend this route if you choose to build your own – I have used LinuxCNC as well, but you have to be a geek to understand it to make it work….( wait for the fire and flames now..) I wont use it again – it cost me a serious machine crash because of it convoluted way of life…Lots of users, lots of forums, but you have to dig for days to get insight – Mach just works out the box for me!

Joe

edit – As I said, Mach does not generate G-Code – it interprets the G-Code, which must be generated by a CAM software package – normally associated with whatever CAD package you may be using. Similar process to the CAM software that would slice your 3D model up for the 3D plastic printer.

Edited By Joseph Noci 1 on 02/01/2018 15:09:18

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

You can use Marlin to control routers/cnc and 3D printers. In principle you could use the same controller for all, but in practice it would probably be best to have two controllers with a 12-way plug to swap over the XYZ steppers and another plug to swap over the limit switches.

If you want a router, I'd go for a 3D router and make a swappable hot end to replace the spindle and a removable heated bed.

Neil

[Colin LLoydParticipant @colinlloyd53450]

Posted by Joseph Noci 1 on 02/01/2018 15:07:01:

Ian,

I can recommend this route if you choose to build your own – I have used LinuxCNC as well, but you have to be a geek to understand it to make it work….( wait for the fire and flames now..) I wont use it again – it cost me a serious machine crash because of it convoluted way of life…Lots of users, lots of forums, but you have to dig for days to get insight – Mach just works out the box for me!

Joe

Edited By Joseph Noci 1 on 02/01/2018 15:09:18

Hi Joe – don't worry – no fire and flames from me – everything is down to personal choice. I started to use Linux way back in 1999 with Corel One – it was even geekier and harder then. Having constantly gone down the Linux path since then except when employer dictats forced me to use Microsoft for work (even then I dual-booted works PCs so that I could use Linux), Mach3 was not really an option. And being new to CNC anyway, I didn't have any pre-conceived idea of how CNC software worked. Conceived and comfortable ideas also raised their head when Microsoft went from Tabbed menus to Ribbon menus in their Office Suite- how convoluted and unnecessary was that – something that doesn't really happen in Linux – if people don't like what they have been given – they either go back and install what they like or fork the application and create something else.

As well as providing everything I need completely free – with a small global user base (not including the 500 biggest SuperComputers, the Internet and Android phones all using Linux) – its not on the radar of malicious hackers and even if it were, it's an inherently safe OS and being open-source, any possible breaches are quicker to be spotted and fixed by the tens of thousands of Linux developers than can ever be achieved by Microsoft or Apple.

But as you say, it's not for everybody – and I respect that point of view – no-one else in my family use Linux. Not quite true as my wife was having so much trouble with Windows 10 that I installed Zorin Linux (one of the Windows 7 look-alike Linux distributions) on her Laptop and she seems to be happily oblivious to the fact it's not Windows 7 – just looks like it and without the security troubles.

Colin

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

Colin ,Joseph and Neil thanls for the reples !

Joseph ,

Yes i forgot about the cam programme generating the G code for cnc like a slicer does for 3d print , i have seen the superb machines you make and trust me when i tell you i'm no where even near that leve!

Colin , i have just had a look at those engravers and for around $700 au they would do 99 % of what i will ever need which is mostly pc boards and plastic lables do you think they are capable enough to make brass name plates using a small 1.5 a- 2mm end mill?

With the router i was thinking more along the lines of being able to machine holes in plastic and alloy up to 2mm thick for plastic and 1 mm for alloy to make front panels for some projects and carving out recesses in timber engine mounting boards etc , i currently do all this on my mill so not something i'm dsperate for !

Neil,

So i would end up with 1 arduino unit with marlin flashed to it and a set of plugs to connect it to the stepper drivers ( cad design ~ slicer ~ arduino/marlin ~ stepper drivers )then a second mach3 compatible unit with the same plug and play set up ( cad design ~ cam ~ mach3~ cnc controller ~ stepper drivers ) I think i would have to re zero all axis after a change over but that wouldn't be a problem .

I'm starting to see the benefit of buying them instead of building !

Once again thanks to all for the replies and information !

Ian.

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

There's an entire and continuous spectrum of CNC machines out there, from simple 3D DIY printers, through simple CNC routers all the way to the multi-axis professional beasts. Almost any combination and permutation of technology is available it seems.

The closest I've seen to a CNC router / mill that "looks like" a 3D printer recently is the Othermill. They've just been bought out and are now called the "Bantam Desktop Milling Machine". Video review here. Seems you can just about manage to mill metal with a plastic chassised machine although these particular ones come at a silly price ($4k!!!). You could get a decent, used "proper" machine for that!

If you are going to concoct your own printer / router / laser / etc, you could do worse than seeing what is already out there and use them as a starting point. Here's a review of all-in-one machines.

Murray

[Colin LLoydParticipant @colinlloyd53450]

Posted by XD 351 on 02/01/2018 19:22:16:

Colin ,Joseph and Neil thanls for the reples !

Colin , i have just had a look at those engravers and for around $700 au they would do 99 % of what i will ever need which is mostly pc boards and plastic lables do you think they are capable enough to make brass name plates using a small 1.5 a- 2mm end mill?

With the router i was thinking more along the lines of being able to machine holes in plastic and alloy up to 2mm thick for plastic and 1 mm for alloy to make front panels for some projects and carving out recesses in timber engine mounting boards etc , i currently do all this on my mill so not something i'm dsperate for !

Ian.

Hi Ian, – yes they will easily do PC boards and brass name plates – not sure about the plastic lables – depends on how hard it is – the tool may tend to melt lesser plastics. Just to show the capability of these machines, see attached "dragon" engraved on mild steel plate and a scroll-saw picture with a name label in stainless steel made for a Danish friend's son (Bjorn). I went against my previous recommendation to start off simple with the "dragon" this was one of my first attempts. I'm currently trying to do copies of old-time engravings with interrupted horizontal lines defining the image – the problem I have is trying to get the G-code to just do a single line rather than the outline of the line – this is more a design problem rather than a CNC machine problem.

Colin

[Colin LLoydParticipant @colinlloyd53450]

Posted by XD 351 on 02/01/2018 19:22:16:

Colin , With the router i was thinking more along the lines of being able to machine holes in plastic and alloy up to 2mm thick for plastic and 1 mm for alloy to make front panels for some projects and carving out recesses in timber engine mounting boards etc , i currently do all this on my mill so not something i'm dsperate for !

Ian.

Will do both of these – just need to apply same techniques as for small mill machines – don't try to do too much at once – the router/engraver motor is not built for strenuous loads – neither are the engraver bits and end-mills that you can use with these machines. But this can all be set up in the design and operating CNC software – then just leave the machine to get on with the work while you go and have a cup of tea. I've found it easier to work with steel than aluminium – latter tends to soften and clog both the path of the machine and the tool-bits. Coolant can help but difficult to apply to flat sheets without constant supervision. Wood is no problem and you can make some impressive 3D pictures in wood with these machines.

Colin

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

Nice work Colin !

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions .

It seems those little engravers on ebay are more capable than most people would think and definately something that will purchasd in the next few weeks .

I have decided to go the prusa i3 route  , how have you  found the acrylic frame ?  Once i find an ebay seller that has  a reasonable feedback rating i order one but i could get the alloy frame but not sure if the extra ( athough small ) cost is worth it for what i want to do which is mostly stuff around learning about 3d printing . The ones i have found come with a v. 8 head not sure if thats a good or bad thing ! 

Ian .

Edited By XD 351 on 03/01/2018 17:58:12

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

The Mk 8 head is pretty reliable, I have a modification in mind that would allow it to feed new filament without reversing the old one out.

My Prusa has an aluminium frame.

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

I can see myself building this thing then immediately rebuilding it and modifying it ! I just know i won't be able to help myself !

So mk 8 it is !

I have a little problem – plastic things and me usually don't mix well ! For some reason they seem to crack and fall to pieces for no good reason ! I think the alloy frame will get the thumbs up . I would suspect the controllers are pretty much all be the same ?

I think in the long run i will be able to get both the printer and engraver for around the same cost if not less than it would cost me to build my own printer and a lot less hassle !

Ian.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Came across a new idea today – room-sized printer using the room as a frame and a print head mounted using fishing line!

Uses a Volcano hot end for 3mm filament and scary extrusion rates.

Neil

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

Two story house = split level printing !

Ian.

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

Ok narrowed it down to these two , i can see some benefit with the remote 3 in 1 unit as it tidies up the wiring , has provision to run two heads and could be transferred to another machine easily but at the expense of some bench space which in my case is not really a problem . The 3 in 1 power supply appears to be slightly more powerful 20 A vs 17.5 A .

Other than that they are identical .

Difference is the remote unit adds $100au .

Any thoughts ?

Ian

 

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by XD 351 on 04/01/2018 05:06:37:

Ok narrowed it down to these two , i can see some benefit with the remote 3 in 1 unit as it tidies up the wiring , has provision to run two heads and could be transferred to another machine easily [ … ]

Difference is the remote unit adds $100au .

Any thoughts ?

.

Looks an excellent idea to me

MichaelG.

[Colin LLoydParticipant @colinlloyd53450]

Posted by XD 351 on 03/01/2018 17:46:15:

I have decided to go the prusa i3 route , how have you found the acrylic frame ? Once i find an ebay seller that has a reasonable feedback rating i order one but i could get the alloy frame but not sure if the extra ( athough small ) cost is worth it for what i want to do which is mostly stuff around learning about 3d printing . The ones i have found come with a v. 8 head not sure if thats a good or bad thing !

Ian .

Edited By XD 351 on 03/01/2018 17:58:12

My 3D printer has a laser cut Acrylic frame. All the pieces are 8mm thick and they connect together very well generally with mortise & tenon joints- no sloppiness seen in any of the joints – in some cases a little too tight – and this is where Acrylic falls down a little bit – if you use force – the acrylic is easily broken. You also need to be careful with the retaining bolts – again over-tightening will crack the acrylic. But the bolts are there just to maintain position – not to provide frame strength. But apart from that, the acrylic frame is solid and stable and I've had no trouble with any of it.

Aluminium sound like it should be better – but I think this depends on how thick the Aluminium is and how that affects stiffness and stability. There is little chance of deforming Acrylic – it will just break. Thin aluminium may deform if something goes wrong and solving a printing problem because your frame is slightly bent may take some time to discover. If I could have a frame made from 8mm thick Aluminium – I would. If the Aluminium frame is only a few millimetres thick – I would prefer a well-made Acrylic frame.

[Colin LLoydParticipant @colinlloyd53450]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 03/01/2018 18:34:07:

The Mk 8 head is pretty reliable, I have a modification in mind that would allow it to feed new filament without reversing the old one out.

My Prusa has an aluminium frame.

Neil – you teaser – you can't do that – we need to know what the modification is.

Colin

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

The Aluminium is 6 mm thick

Ian.

[Colin LLoydParticipant @colinlloyd53450]

Posted by XD 351 on 04/01/2018 12:30:40:

The Aluminium is 6 mm thick

Ian.

So next time I get a 3D printer – it will be in Aluminium

Colin

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by XD 351 on 04/01/2018 12:30:40:

The Aluminium is 6 mm thick

Ian.

Ditto.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Colin LLoyd on 04/01/2018 10:35:05:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 03/01/2018 18:34:07:

The Mk 8 head is pretty reliable, I have a modification in mind that would allow it to feed new filament without reversing the old one out.

Neil – you teaser – you can't do that – we need to know what the modification is.

Colin

That would spoil the surprise, and I want to see if it works first.

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

Ended up getting the one with the remote box , i was looking around the sellers other items of one of the two sellers i had chosen and hidden away there was one up for auction with a start price $70 cheaper than the buy now option – fortunately no one else put a bid on it !

Now its a waiting game and i hope the seller doesn't stuff me around ! The seller only had a few negative feedbacks for the last year and none of them were for non delivery or dodgy practices so finger crossed !

Looks like i have some learning to do – starting with refreshing my near non existent memory of Turbocad 17 !

Ian .

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

Well the printer turned up yesterday so it was aus stock as stated .

Had a dig around through the kit and it all seems well made although the 300mm length of 20mm dia pvc pipe and two elbows to suit had me baffled ! After some head scratching it turned out to be the rod that goes through the spool holder they supplied along with a small round diamond file and a screwdriver tip set – can't wait to test them out . One thing they also supplied is an ejector pin – what it was t meant to eject i know not but i'm sure i will find out sooner or later .

For now it will be a build and modify sort of job fixing a few issues i have read about like lead screw wobble etc and i imagine i will be back with a load of question !

Ian.

[Colin LLoydParticipant @colinlloyd53450]

Posted by XD 351 on 10/01/2018 17:09:49:

Well the printer turned up yesterday so it was aus stock as stated .

although the 300mm length of 20mm dia pvc pipe and two elbows to suit had me baffled ! After some head scratching it turned out to be the rod that goes through the spool holder they supplied along with a small round

One thing they also supplied is an ejector pin – what it was t meant to eject i know not but i'm sure i will find out sooner or later .

For now it will be a build and modify sort of job fixing a few issues i have read about like lead screw wobble etc and i imagine i will be back with a load of question !

Ian.

Yes – the pipe and elbows just doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the kit – but you are right. The ejector pin is for pushing out filament from the ejector nozzle when the filament breaks – seems to only occur with PLA (not ABS) – something to do with moisture making the PLA less stable. You then have to use the normal Filament advance or retract in your software to try and get the broken off filament bit out – you can only do this with the ejector heater on at filament melt temperature. If you are lucky the filament comes out leaving a clear nozzle tube for the new filament. Hasn't happened to me yet – usually some filament remains in the nozzle pipe. The ejector pin is then used to push the remaining filament out of the nozzle (still at ejector temperature) or at least sufficiently for the new filament to find its way down part of the nozzle tube. I warn you – this is the part of the whole 3D printing that has caused me endless trouble – always fixable but a pain in the butt. Generally I find myself taking the whole stepper motor/filament advance/fan/ejector block off the Y-axis support plate and taking it all apart – and then having to carefully drill out the filament from the support tube and the nozzle hole (you can buy 0.3 and 0.4mm drills). It's one of the reasons I now only print in ABS – the filament doesn't break off. For my prints, ABS is a better material than PLA anyway – as they are generally going to go outdoors in the elements where PLA will just melt away. Once you have got things going – or even before – I recommend you buy some steel 0.4mm nozzles – much better and longer lasting than the brass ones supplied.

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

Thanks for the tips ! ( pun intended ! ) i think i will be staying right away from PLA for the moment , besides most of what i want to do will end up in the workshop or for electronics projects so i want durability .

I will definately be buying stainless tips and maybe an extra printer head unit or two just for good measure .

Ian.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> lead screw wobble

If that's the z-axis, don't get too worried about it. the impact on z-accuracy is pretty much too small to measure, but designs that allow the z-axis nut to move slightly from side to side help prevent binding are good.

Neil

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