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‘What LatheXXXXX sorry 3D Printer should I buy’

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  • #324321
    Neil Wyatt
    Moderator
      @neilwyatt
      Posted by Roderick Jenkins on 29/10/2017 16:16:18:

      More PVA?

      Z-height too high.

      To clarify, if it comes out as loose strings on the first layer, the print head is too high. it should 'smear' the extrusions just enough that they fuse together.

      The role of the nozzle in 'smearing' the extrusion to the correct thickness is vital but rarely appreciated.

      Neil

      Edited By Neil Wyatt on 29/10/2017 18:54:54

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      #324331
      Roderick Jenkins
      Participant
        @roderickjenkins93242
        Posted by Neil Wyatt on 29/10/2017 18:52:55:

        Posted by Roderick Jenkins on 29/10/2017 16:16:18:

        More PVA?

        Z-height too high.

        Cheers, I'll find some thinner paper.

        Rod

        #324379
        Neil Wyatt
        Moderator
          @neilwyatt

          I do it by eye now, look at a shallow angle and set it so there's a small gap between nozzle and its reflection in the glass.

          Neil

          #324403
          Journeyman
          Participant
            @journeyman
            Posted by Neil Wyatt on 29/10/2017 23:12:57:

            I do it by eye now, look at a shallow angle and set it so there's a small gap between nozzle and its reflection in the glass.

            Neil

            I am not sure there should be a gap. In theory when Z=0 the nozzle should just be touching the bed. The first thing that happens in a print is that the g-code sets Z to the first layer height. If you are using say 0.2mm layer then the nozzle will be 0.2mm above the plate and the g-code will extrude enough plastic to fill that gap. If you start with a gap between nozzle and plate then the extruded plasic is not enough to fill the gap unless you have the first layer extrusion rate set at say 110% or higher.

            There is a lot of "spring" in both the head and the bed so a bit of paper between nozzle and plate will probably set the nozzle to just touch provided it is not trapped too tightly.

            I could of course be wrongfrown

            John

            Edit: Typo

            Edited By Journeyman on 30/10/2017 09:46:22

            #324411
            Colin LLoyd
            Participant
              @colinlloyd53450

              The proof of the pudding in this first layer adhesion debate is what the end product looks like and what the creator is happy with. I've tried diluted PVA and cannot get a consistently thin layer – but that could be my clumsiness. Which is why I use the hairspray; like acrylic paint – it provides an incredibly thin consistent layer which then creates a mirror-like finish to the underside of the bottom layer. Bed temperature can also play a part in this adhesion problem as well as affecting how solid (in a structural sense) a foundation is provided for the rest of the print.

              I always use the initial nozzle "clear-out" and testing circum-navigation of the 3D print in Repetier Host to judge whether I need to adjust anything for that important first layer. There's nothing more frustrating than finding, after hours of printing, that because of a poor first layer, the whole print has been compromised.

              #324605
              Zebethyal
              Participant
                @zebethyal

                I always set my Z height to zero based on having light scratching against a sheet of paper between the print head and the heated bed and have lovely smooth faces on the finished product once removed (usually the best surface of the finished print!).

                I can usually tell whether or not the bed is properly level and extruding properly whilst the initial layer is being printed – I cancel the print if it is too squashed or not squashed enough before the initial layer is even finished and adjust as appropriate – better bed levelling (remember to do this with the bed hot, it changes shape with the heat), or better zero Z height adjustment.

                I print onto kapton tape that has been cleaned with acetone, on a glass sheet clamped on top of my heated bed with mini bulldog clips. I change the tape when it starts to look tatty, which if you are careful with removing your prints can be 6 months or more.

                If you have left the heat on for the extruder, it is always worth extruding a bit before starting a print, as the plastic in the internal reservoir slowly oozes out and is not replaced if the stepper is not turning – also worth printing an outline to ensure that all is extruding properly before the main print starts.

                A date appropriate print of some skeletons I printed last year – the bed was not as level as it might have been and the one on the right had fused joints.

                If you look closely, you can see that the perimeter is wider in the lower right than elsewhere on the print – squashed more due to insufficient Z height.

                Printed using glow-in-the-dark filament.

                 

                Edited By Zebethyal on 31/10/2017 11:28:42

                #325195
                Colin LLoyd
                Participant
                  @colinlloyd53450
                  Posted by Neil Wyatt on 28/10/2017 20:40:10:

                  Mine don't take the weight either.

                  But any type with 608 bearings, you could run a nylock nut down the all thread until it contacts the bearing inner race.

                  I have to be honest, applying enough force to influence my universal couplers pulls the frame out of line, which I think is worse.

                  Neil

                  Just to add some facts to this part of the thread dealing with thrust bearings for the Z-axis screw rods. The Stepper motor – filament supply unit – heater unit – finned cooler – fan – and support bracket weighs 490g, the 2 y-axis traverse rods, I estimate, weigh together 990g and the remaining support structures for the longitudinal bearings and z-axis movement probably another 500g for a total of about 2 kg. Which seems to agree with spring balance measurements performed on one of the threaded rods. A hook was super-glued to the top surface of the rod and initially a 500g and then a 1000g spring balance was used to see what was required to raise the rod by a very small distance – discernible but much less than 1mm. This resistance relates to both the total weight of the z-axis structure and the deforming resistance of the grooved flexible coupling at the base of the rod. No movement was seen for 1000g. Using a 0-32kg (resolution spring balance seemed to indicate about a 1.5 kg lift for a discernible movement of the rod before the superglue attachment failed. What this seems to tell me is that the flexible coupling has little flexibility.

                  But I am still in two minds whether to add thrust bearings to the top of the rods – for) taking the load off the flexible bearings and against) I've seen no fault in my prints that might be explained by lack of flexibility in the couplings. As an alternative, removing the flexible couplings and injecting silicone rubber into the grooves may provide the mechanical support in the couplings while still providing the flexibility.

                  #326600
                  Iain Downs
                  Participant
                    @iaindowns78295

                    A Mr Admin from Factory3d says that the next batch of the Prusa clone will be available in a few weeks.

                    At which point I'm inclined to grab one.

                    However, I did spot (thanks to a Forum post) the Aldi printer which appears to be one of these.

                    Does anyone have experience of these (which appear to review particularly well) ideally with a comparison against a Factory3D one?

                    I do like the idea of buying British, but one would imagine a chinese built could be better than a UK kit at the same price (or much, much worse of course).

                    The Wanhao does seem to need some extras to bring it up to spec (printing wood requires a different nozzle for example).

                    Any input much appreciated.

                    Iain

                    #326671
                    Neil Wyatt
                    Moderator
                      @neilwyatt
                      Posted by Iain Downs on 11/11/2017 09:42:41:

                      A Mr Admin from Factory3d says that the next batch of the Prusa clone will be available in a few weeks.

                      At which point I'm inclined to grab one.

                      However, I did spot (thanks to a Forum post) the Aldi printer which appears to be one of these.

                      Does anyone have experience of these (which appear to review particularly well) ideally with a comparison against a Factory3D one?

                      I do like the idea of buying British, but one would imagine a chinese built could be better than a UK kit at the same price (or much, much worse of course).

                      The Wanhao does seem to need some extras to bring it up to spec (printing wood requires a different nozzle for example).

                      Any input much appreciated.

                      Iain

                      The Factory 3D is generally a bit better specced than most Chinese supplied kits (e.g. Geeetech) but uses Chinese sourced parts, I am sure. Other benefit is support + advice plus a decent build manual.

                      We need a tear down of an Aldi one!

                      Nozzles are pence on eBay. Lots of 3D printer bits should be considered consumables: thermistors, heat brake tubes, nozzles.

                      One advantage of build your own is complete confidence to upgrade/repair when something goes awry.

                      If I want another 3D printer in future I will probably buy in the controllers etc. but build the frame etc. probably around a larger hot bed.

                      Neil

                      Neil

                      #326680
                      Martin of Wick
                      Participant
                        @martinofwick

                        [ However, I did spot (thanks to a Forum post) the Aldi printer which appears to be one of these.

                        or possibly not. – because it looks the same doesn't mean it is the same for Chinese clones. Cant find a detailed spec on the aldi site to make a full comparison.

                        The PLUS version of the Wanhao i3 appears a better spec. compared to my basic I3 as the hot end is rated to 260c – if true this is useful as it will allow printing of nylon and other higher temp materials.

                        it is worth seeing if Aldi will provide you with the full spec of the machine including the firmware type and temperature ratings rather than just the marketing blurb. Remember, they are selling a clone of a clone, so what you see is not necessarily what you thought you were getting.

                        I have been pleased with the performance of my basic Wanhao, however in engineering terms it could have been so, so, much better with minor design tweaks to stiffen the Y axis and use of double linear bearings on the Z. Having said that, the quality of prints has exceeded my expectations without much more tweaking than speed and acceleration. I believe I can get better from it if I need to.

                        Note of caution, if you are minded to print high temperature materials, you may want to check whether the machine incorporates a Mosfet to supply the heater bed, because if not then upwards of 10A is being routed through the control board which has been attributed to early board failure. One of the planned upgrades that I did manage to do to mine – for peace of mind (and the only one so far – too busy printing to bother with any others!)

                        #326741
                        Neil Wyatt
                        Moderator
                          @neilwyatt
                          Posted by Martin of Wick on 11/11/2017 15:52:59:

                          Note of caution, if you are minded to print high temperature materials, you may want to check whether the machine incorporates a Mosfet to supply the heater bed, because if not then upwards of 10A is being routed through the control board which has been attributed to early board failure. One of the planned upgrades that I did manage to do to mine – for peace of mind (and the only one so far – too busy printing to bother with any others!)

                          The screw terminals are poor, and mine melted. I soldered the leads in place and have had no more problems.

                          N.

                          #327013
                          Roderick Jenkins
                          Participant
                            @roderickjenkins93242

                            Some more playing with my Factory 3D:

                            Now using Cura 3.0.4.

                            First go with support, 0.2 prints:

                            uni1.jpg

                            The supports break away easily with a pair of dog nosed pliers

                            uni2.jpg

                            A more engineeringy trial with something I drew in Fusion 360.

                            cc1.jpg

                            All seems to work well smiley

                            Rod

                            #327028
                            Neil Wyatt
                            Moderator
                              @neilwyatt

                              Rod,

                              My Little Pony! You could be risking your credibility…

                              PLA well suited to lost 'wax' casting aluminium crankcases, I would have thought.

                              For some reason I haven't tried casting aluminium, although it's much easier to melt than brass.

                              #327030
                              Roderick Jenkins
                              Participant
                                @roderickjenkins93242
                                Posted by Neil Wyatt on 13/11/2017 21:56:16:

                                Rod,

                                My Little Pony! You could be risking your credibility…

                                I didn't know I had any ! I do have a 12 year old niece though.

                                I hope you're going to give us more details of your lost PAL system.

                                Rod

                                #327222
                                Ian Skeldon 2
                                Participant
                                  @ianskeldon2

                                  Hi,

                                  Well with thanks to a suggestion by blowlamp in a different thread I am managing to produce cad drawings and convert them to 'stl' files ok. I sent a couple to a friend who then reported back that they printed off just fine. So all fired up with enthusiasm I started to look at just what 3d printer would best suit my needs, £800 is well more than I need to spend to produce the bits I want and so the factory3d kit looks ideal. However I have no seen that I will probably need some slicing software such as cura or simplicity.

                                  As I am fast approaching old age and all the techno phobia that comes with it I doubt I have the willpower to learn yet more software or the funds to buy it, is it not possible to buy a 3d printer at a sensible price (no more than £400 in my case) that can accept a stl file that I have created and just print it, or am I missing something here?

                                  Thanks,

                                  Ian

                                  Edited By Ian Skeldon 2 on 14/11/2017 21:57:05

                                  #327233
                                  Neil Wyatt
                                  Moderator
                                    @neilwyatt
                                    Posted by Roderick Jenkins on 13/11/2017 22:25:08:

                                    I hope you're going to give us more details of your lost PAL system.

                                    Rod

                                    That was a TV with the vertical holed gone and the picture rolling over…

                                    Apparently my 3D printing book will be out in May and all my techniques will then be revealed!

                                    Basic guide:

                                    3D print pattern with sufficient base to act as a reservoir for extra metal.

                                    Coat in plaster then push into a bigger mould full of plaster to make sure no bubbles.

                                    Dry on radiator for 24 hours

                                    In oven upside down in cool oven on a bit of foil then at increasing heat, hold at mark 6 for half an hour, then blast at Mk8 until the PLA runs out.

                                    While still hot roast with hefty propane torch until PLA runs out/stops gassing off/burning and all soot marks disappear from mould hole.

                                    Melt more than enough brass using borax as a flux/cover, this will help stop zinc bureing off. Keep mould hot. Plenty of fresh air as if the brass starts boiling of zinc the fumes can give you zinc fume fever.

                                    Pour metal in carefully.

                                    When solid, smash off plaster. remove last bits with powerful limescale remover/ultrasonic tank.

                                    Neil

                                    #327235
                                    Neil Wyatt
                                    Moderator
                                      @neilwyatt
                                      Posted by Ian Skeldon 2 on 14/11/2017 21:43:57:

                                      Hi,

                                      Well with thanks to a suggestion by blowlamp in a different thread I am managing to produce cad drawings and convert them to 'stl' files ok. I sent a couple to a friend who then reported back that they printed off just fine. So all fired up with enthusiasm I started to look at just what 3d printer would best suit my needs, £800 is well more than I need to spend to produce the bits I want and so the factory3d kit looks ideal. However I have no seen that I will probably need some slicing software such as cura or simplicity.

                                      As I am fast approaching old age and all the techno phobia that comes with it I doubt I have the willpower to learn yet more software or the funds to buy it, is it not possible to buy a 3d printer at a sensible price (no more than £400 in my case) that can accept a stl file that I have created and just print it, or am I missing something here?

                                      Thanks,

                                      Ian

                                      Edited By Ian Skeldon 2 on 14/11/2017 21:57:05

                                      Yes, the STL file alone won't include print settings. You put these in Cura (or use the defaults for your printer, the Factory 3D comes with Cura and default settings on an sd card).

                                      Cura is fairly easy to use if you just keep to beginner settings.

                                      Neil

                                      Edit – if you can work CAD then you have more brain power than needed for Cura.

                                      Edited By Neil Wyatt on 14/11/2017 22:31:48

                                      #327245
                                      blowlamp
                                      Participant
                                        @blowlamp
                                        Posted by Ian Skeldon 2 on 14/11/2017 21:43:57:

                                        Hi,

                                        Well with thanks to a suggestion by blowlamp in a different thread I am managing to produce cad drawings and convert them to 'stl' files ok. I sent a couple to a friend who then reported back that they printed off just fine. So all fired up with enthusiasm I started to look at just what 3d printer would best suit my needs, £800 is well more than I need to spend to produce the bits I want and so the factory3d kit looks ideal. However I have no seen that I will probably need some slicing software such as cura or simplicity.

                                        As I am fast approaching old age and all the techno phobia that comes with it I doubt I have the willpower to learn yet more software or the funds to buy it, is it not possible to buy a 3d printer at a sensible price (no more than £400 in my case) that can accept a stl file that I have created and just print it, or am I missing something here?

                                        Thanks,

                                        Ian

                                        Edited By Ian Skeldon 2 on 14/11/2017 21:57:05

                                        You're having a go with MoI3D? thumbs up

                                        Did you purchase or just using the trial software?

                                        It'd be nice to hear your thoughts if you get chance.

                                        Martin.

                                        #327259
                                        Journeyman
                                        Participant
                                          @journeyman
                                          Posted by Roderick Jenkins on 13/11/2017 20:40:40:

                                          Some more playing with my Factory 3D:

                                          Now using Cura 3.0.4.

                                          First go with support, 0.2 prints:

                                          uni1.jpg

                                          The supports break away easily with a pair of dog nosed pliers

                                          All seems to work well smiley

                                          Rod

                                          Rod, I think you may have had a belt slip on the My Little Pony print. Look at the step, particularly noticable in the supports, just below the wing. I suffered with this on my build and the advice from F3D was that the belts should be tight and if necessary up the current to the motor. Motor should run warm and the belt should twang a good note. If you were watching it print you would have heard the bang when the belt jumped a tooth. Belts do stretch a little bit so need re-tensioning after the first few runs.

                                          John

                                          #327384
                                          Ian Skeldon 2
                                          Participant
                                            @ianskeldon2

                                            Hi Martin (Blowlamp),

                                            Yes I am using the trial version of MOI 3d, it's fantastic, I find it quicker to learn and use than fusion and it isn't slow in use and hasn't hung like fusion did. I am pretty sure I will buy it as I am already using it to produce small components and saving them in STL format, no need to export or anything.

                                            The only negative is that there doesn't appear to be a lot of instruction or tutorial information out there, just one chap on youtube.

                                            Hi Neil,

                                            Thanks for that, at least I know that the factory 3d printer will come with Cura already packaged, hopefully I will find any help with using it on here (if needed).

                                            #327394
                                            Roderick Jenkins
                                            Participant
                                              @roderickjenkins93242
                                              Posted by Journeyman on 15/11/2017 08:08:02:

                                              Rod, I think you may have had a belt slip on the My Little Pony print. Look at the step, particularly noticable in the supports, just below the wing. I suffered with this on my build and the advice from F3D was that the belts should be tight and if necessary up the current to the motor. Motor should run warm and the belt should twang a good note. If you were watching it print you would have heard the bang when the belt jumped a tooth. Belts do stretch a little bit so need re-tensioning after the first few runs.

                                              Thanks for that, John. I've already re-tensioned my X belt once – looks like I need to do it again, it certainly isn't "twang" tight. Other prints have been OK but I guess it happens if there is a large non-printing move with higher velocity.

                                              Cheers,

                                              Rod

                                              #327396
                                              blowlamp
                                              Participant
                                                @blowlamp
                                                Posted by Ian Skeldon 2 on 15/11/2017 20:46:37:

                                                Hi Martin (Blowlamp),

                                                Yes I am using the trial version of MOI 3d, it's fantastic, I find it quicker to learn and use than fusion and it isn't slow in use and hasn't hung like fusion did. I am pretty sure I will buy it as I am already using it to produce small components and saving them in STL format, no need to export or anything.

                                                The only negative is that there doesn't appear to be a lot of instruction or tutorial information out there, just one chap on youtube.

                                                Hi Neil,

                                                Thanks for that, at least I know that the factory 3d printer will come with Cura already packaged, hopefully I will find any help with using it on here (if needed).

                                                Hi Ian.

                                                MoI has a good forum and you'll get help straight from the developer, if another user doesn't get in first.

                                                Just in case you aren't aware – selecting any of the drawing/editing tools and then hitting the 'Help ?' icon will take you to an explanation (with examples) of that particular function.

                                                Some tutorials are here.

                                                Martin.

                                                #327438
                                                Colin LLoyd
                                                Participant
                                                  @colinlloyd53450

                                                  Just my pennyworth – and it may be a repeat of something I've said elsewhere.

                                                  For CAD design I use OpenSCAD as a) it is free and b) it is more geared to engineering use as opposed to something like Inkscape or Blender which are more artistic based. In OpenSCAD you define your object through mathematical interactions of primary shapes such as circles, cylinders, cubes, plates etc. These are combined through logical processes such as difference, intersection, etc. Because the items are created using engineering units, items such as nylon gear wheels, journal bearings etc. can be created. These can then be exported through a number of different protocols including STL for import into your preferred printing program which converts these STL (for example) files to the G-code necessary to move and operate the 3D printer. Examples are easily seen – just search for OpennSCAD Engineering examples. And for anyone who fears having to write the program to create these items, OpenSCAD has extensive libraries where programs can be downloaded, studied, copied or modified – so easing the design stage and the learning curve.

                                                  For Printing I use Repetier-Host which includes several different conversion sub-programs for converting G-code to 3D printing output such as Cura and Slic3r. Again, Repetier-Host is free and available for LINUX, Windows-aargh, and Mac-for the rich people.

                                                  #327450
                                                  Iain Downs
                                                  Participant
                                                    @iaindowns78295

                                                    When I get my printer I'm going to give OnShape a go.

                                                    I use it for such design work as I do and find it easier to learn than most, though like any CAD tool it's not simple.

                                                    Has anyone used OnShape in that context?

                                                    Colin – with a few dozen program languages under my belt over 40 years of learning them, I find there's no more room in there! Point and click. Ah – old age doesn't come alone, as my Mum would say.

                                                    Iain

                                                    #327451
                                                    Michael Gilligan
                                                    Participant
                                                      @michaelgilligan61133
                                                      Posted by Colin LLoyd on 16/11/2017 11:05:53:

                                                      Just my pennyworth – and it may be a repeat of something I've said elsewhere.

                                                      For CAD design I use OpenSCAD …

                                                      .

                                                      Thanks for that, Colin

                                                      I will give it a try

                                                      MichaelG.

                                                      .

                                                      http://www.openscad.org

                                                      Edited By Michael Gilligan on 16/11/2017 11:47:41

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