What is the advantage of Lithium Grease over regular grease?

[Simon Robinson 4Participant @simonrobinson4]

A lot of people use Lithium grease on the wheel bearings on bicycles, is there any advantage of using this rather than normal brown petroleum based grease? It’s not like bicycle bearings reach a high temperature or anything like that.

[Bill DawesParticipant @billdawes]

Not sure of bikes but as I guess you know a grease is basically oil held in a base compound, these are many and varied to cope with load, speed, temperature (high or low) corrosion etc and probably combination of several of these conditions. Common base would be a soap such as lithium, more extreme conditions probably a synthetic one.

Bill D.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I think it is more to do with what is available in Halfords, or wherever shop they get their grease. I can’t think when I saw non-lithium apart  from the cartridges we get from the farm supply for the cricket club tractor and gang mower.

Another related puzzle is the white grease that seems to be stock for car window mechanisms.

[FulmenParticipant @fulmen]

Lithim soaps seems to be very good allround performers. It handles heavy loads and high temperatures, but it’s real strength lies in the adhesion and water resistance. It stays put even if exposed to water.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I can’t really comment on the lubrication advantages, but I do know that Weldtite TF2 ‘handles’ nicely and appears to do what it should.

Chemists here might find something of relevance in the Material DataSheet:

https://ibike.sustrans.org.uk/wip/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/COSSH_Weldtite_TF2_Lithium_grease_white-1.pdf

The white comes from Zinc Oxide, if that’s any help

MichaelG.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, there isn’t a one type fits all bearing grease, just about everything associated with the bearing in use needs to be considered.

https://www.skf.com/uk/products/lubrication-management/lubricants

The above link will give you a lot of information, and this catalogue link below should help with a lot of your queries.

https://cdn.skfmediahub.skf.com/api/public/094fe398236d3d0a/pdf_preview_medium/094fe398236d3d0a_pdf_preview_medium.pdf#cid-595611

Regards Nick.

P.S. I have no association to the company in the above links.

[Bill DawesParticipant @billdawes]

As an industrial fan engineer I have done a fair bit of research into bearings and lubrication and I know enough to say it is a bewildering and highly specialised discipline, tribologists I believe they are called.

Look on SKF as mentioned above or lubrication people like Shell, Esso and other special lubrication manufacturers and you will see what I mean, general purpose greases, marine, aerospace, energy, construction machinery, all have their own unique requirements, the list of purpose made lubricants is huge.

Bill D.

[Alistair Robertson 1Participant @alistairrobertson1]

When I worked for an industrial jacking company the grease department was the largest section of the stores.

The range of greases and compounds was truly mind blowing with even a very special section for jacking equipment to be used in nuclear plants.  We had one guy whose sole job was to ensure the grease store was properly controlled with regard to expiry dates and all the relevant certification was provided.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I have used lithium grease in the taper roller bearings for both mill spindles and it stays put, only needing some method of keeping swarf and grit out. It is commonly used in motorcycle and older car wheel hubs where it is not likely to contaminate the brakes when the hub gets hot.

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

I now know a lot more about grease than I did this morning. My conclusions are look for Synthetic grease; don’t mix grease; additives like Moly are never a bad think to have for metal/moving parts. Lithium seems to be more to do with the grease staying in place than lubrication.

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Happy to be corrected, but I seem to recall that additives such as molybdenum or PTFE are not so great for roller or ball bearings as they can cause the balls/rollers to slide rather than roll.

Rob

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

My expert in this field is away till next weekend but I will ask BUT it will be an in depth answer ! Leave it with me ! Noel.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Old Mart, if the grease contaminates the brakes The hub seals have gone – another job to do ! Noel.

[Kiwi BlokeParticipant @kiwibloke62605]

Back to the OP’s original question… ‘Normal’ grease is, in fact, lithium grease: it’s by far the commonest type. Sodium-soap-based grease is very rare and has, as far as I know, no properties useful to us. Calcium-soap-based greases have better water-resistance than Li grease, which is poor.

As has been said, ‘grease’ now covers an alarming multitude of formulations – quite beyond a mortal’s ken. ‘Channelling’ greases are now popular, formulated to squeeze out of the way of balls and rollers in bearings, to reduce grease churning and heat production. I think they get this property from their fillers (of which there’s a bewildering choice). These behave differently from the softer greases of old, and I’m frustrated by not being able to find equivalents (at least in NZ). The NLGI classification relates to something like viscosity, but there’s far more to a grease’s characteristics than NLGI1, NLGI2, etc, despite what the retailer would have you believe…

Decades ago, Castrol LM grease (a good, multi-purpose Li grease) was a soft, translucent formulation. It tended to separate fairly readily, so there was a thin oil layer on top of the grease in the tin. Whatever happened to it? Now, a ‘multi-purpose’ grease seems to be a thick, sticky, opaque mess, with a higher filler content, presumably with marked ‘chanelling’ properties. It doesn’t separate out in the tin so readily, but, if left in a grease gun with a spring-pressurised resevoir, the oil dribbles out, eventually leaving a very stiff cake in the resevoir, which is the devil to clean (been there…).

My belief is that ‘chanelling’ greases are not good in slow-moving plain or sliding bearings, for which the ‘softer’ greases were OK. Can someone enlighten?

[Grindstone Cowboy]

On Grindstone Cowboy Said:

Happy to be corrected, but I seem to recall that additives such as molybdenum or PTFE are not so great for roller or ball bearings as they can cause the balls/rollers to slide rather than roll.

Rob

I’ve also read that the molybdenum disulphide particles can clump, and, under the high pressures in anti-friction bearings, cause micro-indentation of the tracks and/or balls or rollers. Don’t know which story is true – perhaps only folk-lore… OK for sleeve or sliding bearings, though.

[Bill DawesParticipant @billdawes]

This sliding factor is important, bearings that are too lightly loaded can do this and it is most undesirable, in essence oversize bearings can be a problem just as much as undersize.

The thing to remember is this type of bearing, commonly called anti friction bearings or rolling bearings, work by rolling. This not to be confused with Roller bearings. Overgreasing can also cause problems by excessive churning creating high temperatures.

I reiterate that I am not a bearing expert, just many years experience of using bearings in highly loaded high speed conditions

Bill D.

[Kiwi Bloke]

On Kiwi Bloke Said:

Back to the OP’s original question… ‘Normal’ grease is, in fact, lithium grease: it’s by far the commonest type.

…

Please excuse the digression, but: I have to wonder how market conditions will develop, given the demand for Lithium by the ‘Battery’ business.

Mmmm

MichaelG.

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Ref. __ https://carboncredits.com/why-lithium-prices-are-plunging-and-what-to-expect/

 

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Since we have come to the issue of bearings –  For electric motors Suffix C3 is a bearing with a clearance that allow hot running, if you are re bearing an electric motor C3 is the one to use !   Noel

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

I can vouch for the potential destructive power of Molybdenum lubricants, many years ago I put molybdenum additive in a car gearbox oil, the gearbox failed soon after because a needle roller bearing between the input and output shafts disintegrated, at the time I was unaware of the potential damage to roller and ball bearings from molybdenum. The gearbox had done less than 30,000 miles from new and the debris from the disintegrated bearing made a good job of wrecking the gears, needless to say I am very cautious of any oil or grease with additives, my go to grease for general work is Lithium based grease.  Dave W

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

I do now agree there is significant doubt over generic application of ‘black moly’

As it happens, I almost ran out of Castrol LM over weekend so had decided to get a replacement. I checked out Project Farm and concluded that I should get Red Line CV-2 red moly… which is good for bearings… and I made the wrong conclusion ‘moly’ is always good. I now realise I don’t know what red moly is and that it is probably different from black moly (MoS2). This is a synthetic, calcium grease so I also now know to remove old grease before applying.

Also, as it happens, I have a selection of HAGEN Automation micronised solid lubricants (tungsten WS2, moly, boron-nitride, PTFE) which I will now not be usingin combination with oil lubes for high speed bearings. So far I have been dusting it on things where I don’t want liquid or grease lubricants that might take up dust, dirt e.g. folding pocket knife. Red hot I tend to use graphite. I might add them to red line CV-2 for non-ball-bearing applications like angle grinder gears.

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