What inserts do I need for this cutter?

[SteveMParticipant @stevem36008]

[SteveMParticipant @stevem36008]

Hello all,
I wanted a cutter that I could use for one-pass facing on my milling machine. I thought a cutter that's simple to set up and would face anything hard or soft under 4" would be a useful workhorse. I saw this 5-tip 100mm cutter and it was only a tenner so worth a go. I still need a MT3 arbor but that shouldn't be too difficult to find.
I thought I could get one type of insert that would be OK for general work in steel and aluminium. I bought it without inserts thinking it'd be a doddle to find the right ones. Of course I was wrong. I've wasted hours searching the web and the seemingly billions of inserts out there.

I had some 17mm x 4.5mm inserts which seemed to fit well but you can see from this that the geometry of the cutter as presented to the workpiece is all wrong. There are more pictures in my album. The dimensions you see in the picture are in mm.

So I presumed I wanted inserts of approximately 19mm that would present a cutting angle which would drop the cutting edge below the back edge. Hopefully with the pictures that is clear enough – I'm obviously no expert in the correct terminology! I think it should look like this:

But I cannot find any that appear to be the right size. There are millions of 16mm and 22mm inserts but apparently little in between.

Can anybody please tell me what type of inserts would suit the cutter and hence what designation to search for?
And is my thinking logical – is this cutter suitable for general facing work in my Steinel SV4 milling machine?

Any advice or solution would be gratefully received.

Steve

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Looks like it may be a maydown cutter for aluminium. Is there a name or any lettering on the cutter body?

[SteveMParticipant @stevem36008]

Sorry David I should have mentioned that there is no trace of any lettering whatsoever on the cutter body. I guess there must have been at some point but the top surface has been somewhat corroded so probably the lettering there was just obliterated.

Steve

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Are you measuring those tips along the edge? A 16mm triangular insert actually has a 18.48mm long edge so may well fit. You will also need one with a relief angle that is greater than the angle of teh holder so the edge will not rub.

[SteveMParticipant @stevem36008]

Hi Jason,
thanks for that – sounds like a solution to me…

Just re-measured now and the inserts I have are actually 17.1mm along the edge. It may be the battered caliper I'm measuring with but when I took the pictures the other day the edge measured 0.05mm longer.

I had thought that a standard 16mm triangular insert was just that – 16mm along the edge tip to tip. Clearly I was wrong about that though. What does the 16mm actually refer to?

An 18.48mm edge sounds like it's just the right size. So I need to look for a 16mm insert that is 4mm – 5mm thick.Would that be right?

Steve

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Forget what I said I was getting confused with the tollerance "B" which is measured side to tip.

 

Edited By JasonB on 08/08/2015 13:28:29

[Enough!Participant @enough]

I thought that kind of triangular insert was usually measured by the inscribed circle of the triangle.

[SteveMParticipant @stevem36008]

Yes Bandersnatch from searching around it seems you're right.

The inscribed circle of the inserts I tried (the ones pictured) are exactly 11mm, which is one of the standard sizes. According to the Carbide Depot Insert Designation Chart the next size up is 12.7mm (0.5&quot which in a triangular insert translates to 22mm cutting edge length. I think that would be too long, though I can't be sure.

I think I need an insert with a cutting edge close to 19mm, but again I can't be sure.

Hopefully someone will take pity on me soon and point me in the right direction!

Regards,
Steve

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

There's a standardised system for insert numbering. I like to use Korloy inserts which can be obtained from Cutwel but there are many others that are just as good I'm sure.

Here's the relevant section of their catalogue which tells you what the options are for milling inserts. There are also imperial sizes (for the Mercans). I wouldn't be surprised if they are very similar although it's possible that an imperial size may be a better match to this tool than the "16mm" metric size (see catalogue 2 for the imperial dimensions).

Murray

[SteveMParticipant @stevem36008]

Thanks for that Murray, looks like a useful guide.
And Bandersnatch, I have no idea how that smiley winky face icon appeared in my reply. No doubt it was my clumsy fingers to blame…

Steve

Edited By SteveM on 09/08/2015 09:15:25

[Douglas JohnstonParticipant @douglasjohnston98463]

Posted by SteveM on 09/08/2015 09:12:58:

And Bandersnatch, I have no idea how that smiley winky face icon appeared in my reply. No doubt it was my clumsy fingers to blame…

Steve

Edited By SteveM on 09/08/2015 09:15:25

I believe that is caused by the closing bracket being used without a space before it.

Doug

[SteveMParticipant @stevem36008]

Cheers Doug. Clumsy fingers it is then!

Steve

[EdHParticipant @edh]

I might have the inserts you are looking for

Made by Iscar Ltd and marked

IC20

TPY 433

TPUN 220412

K10

pack of 5

20.2mm along sides

4.7mmthick

Look like the one in your last photo, no hole in centre

PM me if your interested.

EdH

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Douglas Johnston on 09/08/2015 09:24:03:

Posted by SteveM on 09/08/2015 09:12:58:

And Bandersnatch, I have no idea how that smiley winky face icon appeared in my reply. No doubt it was my clumsy fingers to blame…

Steve

Edited By SteveM on 09/08/2015 09:15:25

I believe that is caused by the closing bracket being used without a space before it.

It's the combination of the closing parenthesis and the character before it which gives rise to a "text-smiley". Although you can insert smileys from the drop-down, the editor is configured to accept smileys created the old (text) way because some people in these forums prefer it. That causes problems for everyone else (as you found) unless you remember to put a space before the closing parenthesis. Daft really.

Note that none of my parentheses needed the space since the preceding character didn't form a recognised text-smiley.

Edited By Bandersnatch on 09/08/2015 18:52:14

[SteveMParticipant @stevem36008]

Thanks for the offer EdH, but it seems that the grade K10 is for general machining of cast iron, aluminum alloys and non-ferrous materials.

I'll only have the one face cutter so I wanted a general purpose cutter that would be good for steel. Of couse it may be that there isn't such a thing, but I reckon there probably is.

A guy is sending me a sample to try this week, a Sandvik Cormorant. Don't know if they're any good, but we'll see.

Cheers,

Steve

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Douglas Johnston on 09/08/2015 09:24:03:

Posted by SteveM on 09/08/2015 09:12:58:

And Bandersnatch, I have no idea how that smiley winky face icon appeared in my reply. No doubt it was my clumsy fingers to blame…

Steve

Edited By SteveM on 09/08/2015 09:15:25

I believe that is caused by the closing bracket being used without a space before it.

Doug

Actually, it is using " followed by ) without a space that always causes the problem. I think it's part of a sinister campaign against imperial measurements.

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 10/08/2015 08:28:34:

I think it's part of a sinister campaign against imperial measurements.

Neil

.

… and seconds of arc and seconds of time

MichaelG.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

I think the one in the photo would fit your needs, it's a 16 mm tip, it has a few degrees of front clearance, can't remember the number, it's a Sandvik tip. This is one with a home made tool fore the lathe. Sorry, a bit fuzzy, my phone doesn't have much of a camera.

Ian S C

[SteveMParticipant @stevem36008]

Hi Ian, thanks for that.
it could be, depending on what is the length of the cutting edge measured from tip to tip and the thickness. I think need inserts that are between 4mm and 5mm thick.
David mentioned that it may be a Maydown cutter and it does look like the ones on their website. Having said that it also looks like 50 others I've found! Anyway I contacted them today and sent them some details and pictures. The guy that can help is in tomorrow, so perhaps I'll know more then.
Cheers,

Steve

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