What direction should this forum be taking?

[James AlfordParticipant @jamesalford67616]

I shall throw in my penny worth.

As a beginner with a vague idea of what I am doing, gleaned from college years ago, my old grandad (a top-notch engineer) and tinkering unsuccessfully with a Peatol lathe some years ago, I have found the answers to my specific questions relevant, helpful and courteous.

I find the broad mix of topics useful as it gives a good insight into several different areas of the past time which I would never has considered looking at without the prompt provided by this site. Also, my experience of forums on other topics (I have an interest in copper art) which have a narrow focus is that thye wither and die. I confess that several threads are of no interest to me at all, but it takes no effort for me not to read them.

James.

Edited By James Alford on 14/11/2015 08:59:21

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I'm pleased to see posts in this thread from people with their total posting numbers ranging from the tens to the thousands. I have read them all, and I am taking them on board. These are the views of about 0.1% of forum members, but they include some of he more prolific posters and some more recent members.

Some people feel that the website should be more specialised.That misses the point; there are lots of specialist websites for people who wish to focus on specific aspects of the hobby. This is the website that offers a place for people with interests in any and every area of hobby engineering.

More build threads and the like would add to the websites appeal, but though that would be good for us, it probably isn't the first choice for people who would rather share their work in dedicated forums.

There is huge knowledge and experience here, and the thing this forum is best at is supporting beginners and answering technical questions. It also functions as a sort of global 'chat room' for model engineers.

I don't want to chase anyone who wants to focus on their interests away, but they need to accept that the sheer size of our membership means there will always be plenty of content that doesn't interest them.

So, when I ask about direction, I don't mean should we narrow down and specialise or not.

My concern is for the forums to remain of interest to the widest possible audience while remaining relevant to our magazine readership, customers and advertisers. Ultimately it is the members who decide what content will thrive, because they will comment on the topics that capture their interest and ignore the others.

My concerns and reason for starting this thread is that when some users start criticising threads for not being 'relevant' to the forum it ends up as being expressed as conflicts between different groups of users.

In the light of the continued growth of the membership and the content of the forum, what is needed are two things:

From forum members – tolerance for the diversity of interest within such a huge group of users.

From forum moderators and administrators – to make our best efforts (within the constraints of the forum software) to try and keep things organised enough to enable people better find the parts of the site they are interested in.

Here are some possible ways forward:

• Moderators need to be more active in renaming and reclassifying threads.
• Further thought needs to be given to the Topics and under-used ones should be amalgamated.
• We need to be a more pro-active in moving irrelevant sub-threads out of the way when they become disruptive. Occasional sideways comments and comic asides are part of the flavour of this forum, and it isn't practical or productive to try and stop this. It's when a couple of comments become a different conversation that we should act.
• All users need to be tolerant and accept that a significant proportion of the content on the website will not be of interest to them. This forum is big, people should not feel obliged to read or reply to every topic or message – treat it like a library or wikipedia. You can just visit areas that specifically interest you, drop in to the general areas to for a chat, or explore a new subject out of curiosity.
• We need to encourage users to make use of the 'report posting' link when they have a concern.
• An 'introduce yourself' topic where new members (and perhaps some existing ones) can say who they are and what interests them informally – and hopefully be welcomed by existing users.
• We could promote the 'friend' system – it isn't much used at the moment, but if you add someone whose interests are close to your own as a 'friend' then the 'feed' link on the green bar at the top of the page will list all their recent postings for you, as well as your own.
• Users who really don't like the content posted by some other users should use the 'ignore' button.
• It isn't practical to add the topic to posts in the latest posts panel, but the larger format of the latest posts page offers a way to see the topic of each busy thread.

Further thoughts welcome.

Neil

[HowiParticipant @howi]

I think model engineers ( readers of ME and MEW) should take a deap breath and ask themselves where is the hobby going and where are the new faces to come from?

Another hobby of mine is archery, run by what used to be called GNAS, grand national archery society. This fine organisation had a very full set of rules, not only regarding actual shooting, but conduct on the shooting line also.

You may wonder what this has good with model engineering, well! The ongoing success of any hobby is the ability to attract new blood ( this includes old and young by the way) but ultimately by attracting youngsters.

Many archeryclubs , archers and judges stuck rigidly to the rules, any contravention was looked on with great disdain.

One of the most controversial rules related to what you could/could not wear on the shooting line.

The rules stipulated green or white clothing, white despite having more variation than any other colour was not a problem, but having ( what some judges considered the wrong) green, caused a great deal of anger.

Gradually GNAS began to realise that the 'set in your ways' attitude of the organisation and clubs was harming archery nationally by discouraging younger members from taking up the sport, and very gradually and with a great deal of anger from those set in their ways ( you may read old here),the rules were changed to allow more choice in clothing and in fact whilst club colours are encouraged you can shoot in any clothing (that is decent and safe) except denim and camaflage. At this point those running GNAS decided on the most radical change yet, to change the name of GNAS to Archery UK, at the same time change the style of the GNAS magazine ( arguably the most boring magazine ever printed) into something colourful and vibrant with a great deal of enphasis on the younger archers without any retirement to the older element. This coupled with actively encouraging clubs to actively take on younger members has seen a boom in membership. 

The point I am trying to make is that this great hobby of ours needs the younger element to be encouraged, whether by widening the content, having more beginner articles etc. It should in my opinion be aimed more at the young beginner than any other age group as this is the only way forward.

I think Neil is doing a great job with MEW, unfortunately ME does not seem to have changed in style or content for years if at all, and seems to me to pander to the older more expert among us. You of course may have other ideas.

Adapt or die

What do YOU think?

I have a fire extinguisher standing by………

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Well said, Neil

I realise that it is a Herculean task, but I think that action on your first two bullet points would be very helpful.

You and I have already 'sparred' briefly on the matter of taxonomy, but I do believe that the 'Topics' list needs attention. It has grown to the point where [I suspect] many new threads are just put under whichever broadly applicable Topic the poster happens to see first.

This is a guess, but: I think a list of about a dozen 'Topics' would suffice. … That would encourage the selection of an appropriate Topic for a new Thread, and would make "filtering" easier for those who are interested [or not interested] in some types of discussion.

MichaelG.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

• Moderators need to be more active in renaming and reclassifying threads.

Having moved or renamed at least 5 in the last 24hrs how many more do you want doing?

• Further thought needs to be given to the Topics and under-used ones should be amalgamated.

It seems little thought is given and certainly no discussion amoung mods, new topics seem to be added when one person wants one eg astronomy motor bikes, new welcome topic

• We need to be a more pro-active in moving irrelevant sub-threads out of the way when they become disruptive. Occasional sideways comments and comic asides are part of the flavour of this forum, and it isn't practical or productive to try and stop this. It's when a couple of comments become a different conversation that we should act.

Happy to do that but as I have said to you and Diane before the forum software is very lacking for this, other forums have specific moderator areas where say a thread or post can be placed temporarily while a decision is made, here its what one mod thinks and if deleted there is no going back to reinstate that thread/post

• All users need to be tolerant and accept that a significant proportion of the content on the website will not be of interest to them. This forum is big, people should not feel obliged to read or reply to every topic or message – treat it like a library or wikipedia. You can just visit areas that specifically interest you, drop in to the general areas to for a chat, or explore a new subject out of curiosity.

 

• We need to encourage users to make use of the 'report posting' link when they have a concern.

Again action son the report is down to one mod with no easy discussion and they can stay there for a long time, I often leave ones and also first posts that I am 50/50 about for another mod to take a second action but they can be there for days

• An 'introduce yourself' topic where new members (and perhaps some existing ones) can say who they are and what interests them informally – and hopefully be welcomed by existing users.

Did not see anyone feeling the need for thios and I do find them verymuch an American thing

• We could promote the 'friend' system – it isn't much used at the moment, but if you add someone whose interests are close to your own as a 'friend' then the 'feed' link on the green bar at the top of the page will list all their recent postings for you, as well as your own.

 

• Users who really don't like the content posted by some other users should use the 'ignore' button.

Unfortunately that makes thread disjointed and they may have something useful to say at times

• It isn't practical to add the topic to posts in the latest posts panel, but the larger format of the latest posts page offers a way to see the topic of each busy thread.

I tend to use "more latest posts" I know when I last looked at the forum so can look at what I want above that time and not just the last 10 or so posts.

On the numbers of members are you basing that persentage on what shows up in admin as it includes all those spammers etc who sign up to post junk that is then not approved as a first post etc which must be quite a high percentage. Do you have figures for active genuine visitors (PM if needed)

Just my thoughts now I'm off in the Direction of the Workshop.

J

PS Neil sent you an e-mail earlier

Edited By JasonB on 14/11/2015 09:53:06

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

Neil, no further thoughts, you just about said it all. Now I realise what a hard road that you and the other moderators must tread. As we say in Oz, "You're between a rock and a hard place".

The concept of clarifying topic headings seems like a good idea (hopefully with the assent of the originator).

This forum ebbs and flows, popular topics survive the test of time. The content is what we, the contributors input.

Now if you could persuade the bean counters to upgrade the software to give one the option to turn off the grinning smiley monkeys I suspect that it would be a popular move.

* Danny M *

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I must agree that the forum software leaves much to be desired.

Unfortunately the cost of the best systems is related to the size of your database … and that makes upgrading a bit of a financial challenge, to say nothing of the technical ones.

Jason's post makes the point that moderation would be easier if their were some 'private' space where moderators could discuss forum issues.

Well I have unilaterally kicked off a new member topic – if it gets used, it justifies its worth,. if it doesn't, it can go under.

I really don't know how practical is it is to make improvements, to the software, those are conversations I will need to have with MTM.

Neil

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

In my opinion the majority of this forums problems is caused by it being aimed at two main groups but only having one name.

I have no interest in building models (but often read about building them) and I see myself as in the MEW camp. Whilst I do not have any idea of the relative sizes of the ME and MEW forum users I do feel that the ME fraternity are the more 'set in their ways' groups and also happen to be more vociferous. Interestingly (and this is purely a comment) one prolific poster is the editor of MEW whereas the ME editor rarely takes part. I'm undecided as to which is the 'correct' approach.

Out of interest (if it is of interest to the site developers) I only ever visit the site with a 'latest post' link and I suspect the majority of members do the same. I very rarely visit the site homepage

On a less serious note, a lot of the recent discussions about threads going off topic would never had occurred if the great John S had not started the thread titled 'What did you do today'. By definition nothing in that thread could be described as being off topic. Unfortunately the thread content and subjects have migrated into other areas.

I agree totally that the moderators should tidy up and rename if required thread titles that do not give a direct indication of the content. When starting a new topic the user is mandated to choose a title and than has a second line of text which is optional. Why not give moderators full control of this second line so it could be used to explicitly show the thread purpose?

Ian P

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

I like it just as it is. I skip some posts but check every now-and -then, just in case there is something of interest. There is often interesting and useful stuff in a posting, even if at first sight there would not be. How would I know if , eg . there was an interesting set-up in a post about trains if I did not read the post? I do not see any practical way around that.

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

I doubt the forum could be easily changed as it is a custom built from scratch software. I think you need a "super moderator" who is prepared to take overall control and make decisions.

He/ she would need to be thick skinned.

I did alter Model Engineer by dropping the every other issue publishing model and increased the amount of good modelling content but it seems to have reverted to every other issue again. I also note that a lot of content is not really relevant to practicing model engineers, a case in point being the OO gauge track cleaner by Dave Fenner in the latest issue. (Nothing against Dave at all.)

I always published the best material I had even if I had nothing to follow in the next fortnight. Something always turned up although I often had to ask for it after seeing a photo or article in a club magazine.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Ian Phillips on 14/11/2015 10:30:32:

On a less serious note, a lot of the recent discussions about threads going off topic would never had occurred if the great John S had not started the thread titled 'What did you do today'. By definition nothing in that thread could be described as being off topic. Unfortunately the thread content and subjects have migrated into other areas.

.

Ian,

A 'point of order' if I may:

''What did you do today" was started in 2012, by Jason B

… We're on Volume III now.

**LINK**

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 14/11/2015 10:45:03

[Anthony KendallParticipant @anthonykendall53479]

I suggest it is time to stop this.

Edited By Anthony Kendall on 14/11/2015 14:53:58

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Re: Renaming & merging of similar threads.

I'm a little concerned about these ideas as often, I look for a particular thread having remembered its title. Therefore if that title disappears, I'm liable to be sunk. Perhaps I could suggest that the original title be retained but with a single posting giving information as to where the thread has gone. Alternatively, and this could be a way out, maybe I'll have to make more use of the search function.

Peter G. Shaw

[egaParticipant @ega]

Michael Gilligan:

Isn't that "point of order" a point of information?

Where's that nice Mr Bercow when you need him?

Edited By ega on 14/11/2015 11:02:38

[egaParticipant @ega]

Peter G. Shaw:

Good luck with the search function. A search on "Teletubbies" just came up with nothing!

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by ega on 14/11/2015 11:01:39:

Michael Gilligan:

Isn't that "point of order" a point of information?

Where's that nice Mr Bercow when you need him?

Edited By ega on 14/11/2015 11:02:38

Touché

… but then I would have missed the pun on 'order'

MichaelG.

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

Some people are better at skipping noise and tolerating. If you want to train yourself, spend some time on reddit or 4chan then come back here for a rest and focussed content.

If a post annoys you, re-read it and try to assume the best from the post. There have been obvious cases of people getting upset by misinterpretation of a posters intent i.e upset over nothing.

[egaParticipant @ega]

Michael Gilligan:

Yes, puns before pedantry any day. But can you please share the secret of inserting special characters like that e acute?

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by ega on 14/11/2015 11:21:04:

can you please share the secret of inserting special characters like that e acute?

.

It's one of the little luxuries of using an iPad

If I 'hold down' the e key, I can select from various versions

Not sure if the full selection will display correctly, but here goes:

ę ē ė ë é e è ê

MichaelG.

[Mark P.Participant @markp]

Leave things as they are, if you don’t want to read it, don’t but you may learn something. I am a big believer in knowing a little about a lot of things rather than a lot about little. If I need to know more I will investigate further. Just my thoughts.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 14/11/2015 10:44:29:

Posted by Ian Phillips on 14/11/2015 10:30:32:

On a less serious note, a lot of the recent discussions about threads going off topic would never had occurred if the great John S had not started the thread titled 'What did you do today'. By definition nothing in that thread could be described as being off topic. Unfortunately the thread content and subjects have migrated into other areas.

.

Ian,

A 'point of order' if I may:

''What did you do today" was started in 2012, by Jason B

… We're on Volume III now.

**LINK**

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 14/11/2015 10:45:03

.

Thank you Michael.

One the one hand we have some saying we need a chat room and when the ' yearly chat room post ' " What did you do today", is started, always on the 1st of January, we now get people saying it's not relevant.

????????????????

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Could we also have a push for completion of a Public Profile by ALL members. That way when a post is first put, some idea of the posters background would greatly assist the content and style of a "helpful" response.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by John Stevenson on 14/11/2015 12:24:29:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 14/11/2015 10:44:29:

 

 

Thank you Michael.

 

One the one hand we have some saying we need a chat room and when the ' yearly chat room post ' " What did you do today", is started, always on the 1st of January, we now get people saying it's not relevant.

????????????????

Still needs to be relevant as out Editor said

'The Tea Room' will be a place for loosely engineering related chat. The popular 'what did you do today' thread will go here and is a guide to what sort of discussion is appropriate. The 'aircraft general discussion' thread will also go here.

I will stress that forum rules still apply to ALL topics and that threads should still have a relation to our common interest in engineering.

So knitting is out unless Debs knits with welding rods instead of needles

Edited By JasonB on 14/11/2015 13:19:25

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

Ok. Unlike my normal conduct . ( don’t post until you have read the previous posts).
.I have frankly skipped pages in this thread.

That said. I believe the solution is best found by examination of the problem.
I think this was started by an individual suggesting that “his” build thread was ineffect ignored..’cos no one was intrested..
And that there were too few build threads and no wonder.

Ok having stated the problem.
1..as has been said after oh nice shiny etc..what more can one say.
Questions posed during build have in my experience been replyied to promptly and helpfully.

2other build threads seem to have upset the op because others have commented too much…
Dammed if you do dammed if you don’t.

And 3 too much diversity. ..and what is the harm?..if any thread conforms to the subject of its title and the general rules of good taste and local law.. ( local law?…world wide web anyone?)

.
Ok maybe a solutions
.
“Its my ball”
Threads can be premoderated..so maybe at the request of the op could be closed to others posts..

“Topic creep”
Moderation could prune out any off topic wandering. .

And as has been
“Tea Room”
WARNING SUBJECT DIVERSITY AHEAD.

..but hey..I don’t expect any of this to be enacted.

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by KWIL on 14/11/2015 12:53:09:

Could we also have a push for completion of a Public Profile by ALL members. That way when a post is first put, some idea of the posters background would greatly assist the content and style of a "helpful" response.

This has been discussed so many times over the years it's already been "pushed" many times. Some people are all for it (often for others as well as themselves); others are dead against it (usually just for themselves; if others want to, fine). What on earth is the point of forcing it on people (how?)? Some will go elsewhere, some will simply fake the information …. probably rather sarcastically at a guess.

[Author]

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