What direction should this forum be taking?

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Posted by Mark C on 13/11/2015 19:05:58:

So Murray, can you give me some tips on the money laundering scheme that you use for buying your workshop please?

Mark

Obviously it also involves contraband smuggling and tax fiddling so I can't tell you. But I can tell you it involved multiple forms of ID, endless forms, inside leg measurement etc. With things like credit checks you have little real visibility of what's happening – you just have to hope the decision is favourable. I seem to recall buying the house in Canada within a month of the family arriving with a minimum of hassle. Somewhat of a contrast…

[Gas_mantle.Participant @gas_mantle]

Posted by John Stevenson on 13/11/2015 20:09:51:

No you won't as it all depends on the members.

If you have a membership where they go out in the workshop and build things then you will get what you want.

That's precisely why I said you need to target your audience – decide who you want to attract then you'll get the appropriate memberships making the sort of posts you want.

Not rocket science is it ?

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Again no.

On this forum we have a membership that runs into the 10's of thousands but it's always the same 35 ? people who post. Every forum is the same.

Those 35 people have already decided just how this forum will look as regards subjects.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Peter Nichols on 13/11/2015 20:15:11:

… you need to target your audience – decide who you want to attract then you'll get the appropriate memberships making the sort of posts you want.

.

Peter,

A quick reality-check, if I may:

The forum is "owned" by MTM and its advertisers and 'they' [quite reasonably] want to attract visitors who will spend money with them.

Think about it for a while, and you will see that there is NO particular 'sort of post' that they want.

[There are, of course, a few sorts of post that they do not want; but that's a different matter]

MichaelG.

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Gentlemen,

I am a working engineer with a small workshop/garage, I am not a model engineer but I use my machines to help me restore/rebuild my petrol Stationary Engines which is my main hobby, I read this forum because it allows me to pick up Idea's of how to perform a task which can relate to the occasional job I have to perform on my engines. I was brought up on model engineering by my Grandfather who built steam powered ships and a traction engine so I can relate to those of you who do the same. I also enjoy the varied threads that occur, we all have hobbies away from making swarf and its interesting to read about the "Bee's" or the "Austin 7 rebuild" but what I don't like is the occasional back biting, bitching or general nastiness that can occasionally raise its head, I don't read everything, only that that interests me but then I assume others do as well.

The one thing that I see on other Forums I frequent is the occasional Troll which I'm please to see doesn't happen on here but I feel he wouldn't last long, keep the forum as it is as I think its about right.

Martin P

[Gas_mantle.Participant @gas_mantle]

Michael,

I take your point about the commercial aspect but the point I'm trying to get across (and I did say it earlier) is decide what the forum is for, who it wants to attract then plan on that basis.

At the moment it's confused in supposedly being a hobby help / share ideas type of site yet commercial interests may want higher memberships who just want a general chit chat.

All I'm saying is what is the direction of the site ? Is it attract a smaller number of more serious posts or is it a glorified business where the quality of the material is secondary.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Peter Nichols on 13/11/2015 20:47:05:

… or is it a glorified business where the quality of the material is secondary.

.

Yes

N.B, … That answer is simple and honest, not cynical or sarcastic.

I am grateful for the forum, and the freedom to write pretty-much whatever I want.

But I am also realistic enough to understand why it exists.

MichaelG.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

If people want build threads the answer is simple really. Start one. One person I am aware of on here did that as he was and in some ways still is a novice. He looks to have received plenty of help on his way to a model and then for some unknown reason deleted all or most of the photo's.

What it looks like to me is that if this site was purely build a steam engine threads no one would be posting at all really – especially now one seems to have come to a rather odd sort of end.

So if you engine people want them get of up of your backsides and start one and maintain it. A forum in real terms is only as good as it's members so if they wont nobody else is going to do it for you.

John

–

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

i could not disagree with John Stevenson more! i always enjoy his entertaining posts except where he uses language i dont approve of, and have the greatest respect for his workshop skills. however JasonB has tried to set high standards as moderator, and is always extremely courteous and helpful and always model engineering related, whereas John is a bit too abrupt sometimes (and i know via personal correspondence his view of us in the miniature locomotive camp), and Neil seems to be floundering and lost his way.

JasonB could easily swamp threads with stuff about his excellent woodworking skills. he does not do so, much to his credit despite me having a strong interest in woodwork. it just isnt appropriate on this forum. neither does it behove Neil to swamp posts with his own non model engineering interests, and contributions to posts of which he clearly knows nothing about but cant seem to help himself wanting to see his name attached to a post in every thread.

a bit of restraint Neil wouldnt go amiss and would do much to help!

on one of the other 'specialised' forums of which i am rather grandly described as an 'Elder Statesman' the moderators do not need to restrain irrelevant and off topic contributions because there are very very few. in fact the moderators never post except very occasionally. we are there to discuss what we spend our precious free time doing in our workshops creating and operating stuff of which we are passionate about! we discuss improvements and details of design and performance, how to make particular parts on varied workshop equipment, (and lots of build threads) and we all get along fine and are all great friends!

i have the greatest affection for the ME magazine going back very many years but if this is it's flagship by way of a public forum then i despair sometimes!

cheers,

julian

[Gas_mantle.Participant @gas_mantle]

John,

Where does this idea it's only for engine builders come from ?

A few people have said it more to do with how people build things / techniques used etc that is important not what the actual finished article is.

I'd be happy to read about anyones build work whether that's a steam engine, a part for a motorbike or a part for a telescope etc.

Edited By Peter Nichols on 13/11/2015 21:05:45

[Steve WithnellParticipant @stevewithnell34426]

The thread title alone should be enough to make a model engineer weep…

As for the content, my wife just confiscated my belt and shoelaces.

Shocking.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

If 'someone' decides a direction then what do they do? As JS said above it is the members who post who choose what they post about. You can't make post on the directed subject therefore all you can do is delete posts you don't like. The PM forum does that but it is not a popular attitude.

If this forum did become 'directed' to just build threads like some others apparently wouldn't we just have lost the diversity of choice. Lets have a variety to select the ones we like.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

The whole Forum is a cornocupia of experience and knowledge and long may it be so! Ask for a technical insight and lo and behold it appears as people are interested in what you ask. There are so many facets to model and general engineering that you cannot steer a known path but you can direct it.

The Forum has sections and these break down to subjects other wise chaos will occur. The idea is not to make it too complicated.

Clive

[Martin CottrellParticipant @martincottrell21329]

Peter, the fact is anyone can come onto this site and seek help, offer advise, post build threads etc. on any ME related subject and get a satisfactory reply/feedback whatever to their particular input. It happens all day, every day and the hobby is richer for it. The general consensus of opinion does seem to imply that members like the way that the forum has evolved. Ok it can be a bit edgy at times but surely thats makes it much more interesting and real than a series of posts interspersed with loads of mutual "back patting" which seems to be the norm on some other sites.

John S is right in some respects that this is an armchair site although I wouldn't agree that most members are here in preference to being in their workshops actually making something. I use the site because I learn from it, I enjoy seeing other peoples solutions to a problem but also because I can get an insight into members other interests such as bee keeping, astronomy, aircraft etc. Reading these can often lead me off on a tangent of discovery and broadens my own scope of interests. Perhaps not surprisingly these "fringe" interests have still have some engineering/science based theme to them so I'm happy to accommodate or ignore them as I see fit. Were members to start interrupting the flow with discussions on politics, religion, sport and suchlike then I could sympathise with disgruntled comments and would doubtless express a disapproving point of view myself!

In conclusion I can't actually see what you would like to change, or indeed what needs changing other than a few tweeks such as more informative thread titles and separate dedicated areas for the "off topic" interests.

Martin.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by Peter Nichols on 13/11/2015 21:03:29:

John,

Where does this idea it's only for engine builders come from ?

A few people have said it more to do with how people build things / techniques used etc that is important not what the actual finished article is.

I'd be happy to read about anyones build work whether that's a steam engine, a part for a motorbike or a part for a telescope etc.

Edited By Peter Nichols on 13/11/2015 21:05:45

I meant it in general terms Peter but do detect some interest in the direction I specifically mentioned.

It doesn't really matter what it's a build thread about really just that people need to produce them if they want them. Few do produce them. Bleating wont cause that to change,

John

–

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Peter Nichols on 13/11/2015 20:15:11:

decide who you want to attract then you'll get the appropriate memberships making the sort of posts you want.

Not rocket science is it ?

No, it isn't (rocket science). Have you considered that perhaps this is exactly what the people that run the site have done – to their satisfaction – and that perhaps you are the one that's out of step with that?

[Bodgit Fixit and RunParticipant @bodgitfixitandrun]

Posted by Peter Nichols on 13/11/2015 14:52:40:

Posted by ASF on 13/11/2015 14:04:26:

Remember this is a showcase and extension for your magazines. Would you put the items on the forums in the magazines? If not, then maybe they dont need to be here.

Well said ASF – that's my point exactly.

It's all very well to keep saying astronomical equipment involves a lot of engineering – no one doubts that. If I made a tripod mount or adapter for my telescope I think I'd be justified in calling that engineering and perhaps showing my work here.

On the other hand a photo of the Andromeda galaxy isn't engineering no matter how you get round it.

Would you expect to sell your magazine if I continually had photos of galaxies and eclipses ?

Hold on here bold eagle. As someone who isn't into Astronomy at this level it can be argued that this is engineering related. Was the picture taken using equipement built or modefied by a member? If so is it not good to be able to show the outcome of that work in action. Surely we have a right to show our efforts in action. This no less valid than showing a model running which I am sure would not be complained about.

I saw the picture but not being over intersted at the time passed over it. it's like complaining about whats on TV but refusing to change the channel to an alternative more interesting channel.

[S.D.L.Participant @s-d-l]

Can most people not skip a thread they are not interested in??>>

I just look at the latest threads 2 times a day and skip the motorbike ones and others that I am uninterested in, but i love the Astronomy.>>

I particularly like the, what have I done today thread and don't care what the post is. You can always jump to the next post.>>

I have followed Garry’s build from the beginning and thoroughly enjoyed it but only commented once or twice when answering a question and I suspect like many just read and enjoy. I will be reading the next one on whichever forum he pops up on, but I still won’t be posting gushing how wonderful comments and using 200 moving and rolling emoticons.>>

All of the Forums have different characteristics but most carry on, despite the odd case of toys been thrown out the pram. Most toy throwers pop up on another forum to repeat in another year or two.>>

And every Forum has its ups and downs (Most entertaining argument ever was John from Bodges Lodge going head to head with Evan on the great circular saw cord debate a few years ago on the Home shop machinist site)>>

Steve

[Mark CParticipant @markc]

Peter, if you don't like the way it is run, why not start your own group (yahoo isn't too bad for this and it's free) advertise your intent and how to get there and you can then control it as you wish. You will then have everyone who wants the same things follow you and that will be to the loss of this site or otherwise. It would answer the question as to what the majority want and you can post back on your membership so we all know the answer!

Mark

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

hey, that is a bit unfair to pick on Peter Nichols!

i share his views, and have stated as much above. i dont mind receiving some flack too – i have broad shoulders too!

i have been at this lark for 32 years since the age of 16, and have a number of award winning miniature locos, designed and helped build 1 club track and been involved with constructing 2 others, and been secretary of one club for many years.

my old antiquated basic workshop equipment is all secondhand and gets used most evenings and all weekend making stuff including making all my own copper silver soldered loco boilers.

in the LBSC tradition i am afraid i think i am (yes, im old fashioned) the typical non-armchair model engineer who also trots along to the newsagents to buy my copy of 'ours'

cheers,

julian

Edited By julian atkins on 13/11/2015 22:29:01

Edited By julian atkins on 13/11/2015 22:33:17

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Neil, you must have the patience of a saint and the skin of a rhino, these Muddle Enjuneers aint half a tetchy lot. Given that clicking on a post, and clicking off it again is a matter of a split second…………..whats the problem. I think the giveaway was the registering of obvious disgust at the fact that at one time the magazine featured (horror of horrors)Model boats. I think perhaps someone should explain to me why model boats are out of place in a model engineering magazine. No matter This is not the magazine, this is the Forum (google it), and I too value the breadth of topics discussed here, although I have never made a model in my life and probably never will, because I am not that sort of engineer. I like this forum just the way it is, although I think the comment about making the contents of new threads clear in the title is very valid one, where is the hardship in deciding NOT to read something. What we have here is the never ending dispute between the generalists, and the purists, although I prefer to call them "one trick ponies" I like the forum the way it is, and I do like it! If others don't they are at choice to move their reading and criticising habits elsewhere.

Phil

[Bodgit Fixit and RunParticipant @bodgitfixitandrun]

Just had a look at the all topics page. Seems to be very similar to other forum indexes so I don't see the problem.

 

Edit: just a thought. If someone want's the moderator to put the forum on track and decide what it is for and whom it is targeted at, then surely that defeats the point of attracting people who want a diverse forum full of ideas and helpful tips.

You run the risk of alienating people like me who value the diversity because of the experience it brings. I'm not overy confident but quietely learn from here. Why because I can search and choose what to loock at. Its called freedom.

Edited By Bodgit Fixit and Run on 13/11/2015 22:39:57

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Peter might consider that his vision of quality might not satisfy an enthusiast with rigorous views about publishing standards. She would require all posts to be evidence based together with references and mathematical proofs etc. All authors would be required to be accredited and their submissions would be put through a strict peer review process. This Stalinist version of the forum wouldn't allow mere artisans to publish Build Threads!

"Model Engineering" has always covered a wide-range of interests. Technologies and methods are strongly inter-related and I like the cross-fertilisation of ideas I get from ME, MEW and this website. The most important thing for me is that a good percentage of the content should be interesting and/or informative, which it usually is. I'm happy with the forum as it is, warts and all.

If it ain't bust don't fix it.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Isn't the national body the Society of Model and EXPERIMENTAL Engineers? Seems like a pretty broad umbrella to me.

I like the WORKSHOP part of MEW. My workshop uses the same equipment to build model engines, restore and/or build motorcycles, restore/fettle machine tools, fix household appliances of all varieties, make special tooling for various purposes, fix the car when it needs it, fix various bicycles from around the neighbourhood and even build extensions on to the workshop itself. All of these are an experiment of one sort or another!

It seems model engineers are generally tinkerers by nature and I am always interested in whatever else they are tinkering with, be it telescopes, beehives, Austin 7s or whatever comes through the door at Bodger's Lodge.

One thing I can't get excited about is model locos. ( I'm a stationary engine guy.) So I just skip those threads. Never really thought of skipping threads of no interest to me as a problem.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Britain now has this culture where vociferous minorities try to impose their will on the majority

[Author]

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