What did you do today? (2013)

[SpringbokParticipant @springbok]

Took my little dog to the vets and when I got back started decorating again, missing my workshop

Bob.

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

For the last couple of days, SWMBO has been away visiting family so got stuck into 'sorting' an inherited long case clock and a heavyweight mantel job. The long case had been knocked over by the tenant's kids and the damage had (supposedly) been repaired!! Not so … the case was badly split and the door lock and hinges bodged. Biggest problem was that the escapement crutch was MISSING!! They come in quite a variety of shapes and forms, and, without the original, what to fit? Eventually decide to try making one from Delrin and, after much fiddling, the clock runs continuously but gains about 5 minutes a day. Remaining brain cell (singular1) says that the bob weight needs to be lower (longer pendulum) so have done so.

The mantel clock had stopped after SWMBO wound it and the minute hand seized. Eventually managed to get at the works and nothing obviously awry. Prodded and fiddled and, surprise, surprise, the thing started to tick – on its face, without the pendulum! Not knowing why it had started, I reckoned it was better left alone and so it remains on the table, sans case. ticking away merrily, while I decide on the next move! I have told SWMBO (now returned) that it MUST stay where it is 'cos that is part of the remedial work!!

Would RJW have any long distance advice, please?

Rgds

Bill

[RJWParticipant @rjw]

Just got back from a 2 hour session in the gym and tucked into a welcome lunch and shovelled in all the calories I'd burned off, hey ho, such is life!

Bill, on your longcase, there are generally two crutch replacements available, a short one (132mm) and a long one (137mm), these will generally fit either 8 day or 30 hour clocks, and as you've found when they're missing it's pot luck or a load of measuring and arithmetic to calculate which length will do!

Now, I readilly admit to being a lazy bugger in the maths dep't these days, so as long as there's sufficient threaded rod on the pendulum for a sizeable adjustment, I usually buy the longest, and so far they've always been spot on, it can't just be luck because I've never won the lottery!

You'll also find at the top of the pendulum rod a brass block to which is attached the bottom end of the suspension spring, the foot of the crutch should sit midway on that block, otherwise if too high, the foot will tend to 'rock' the top of the pendulum rod over being too close to the suspension spring rather than impulsing the pendulum fully, the result being power lost on each impulse and the clock will eventually stop!

The pendulum block should also be a nice sliding fit in the foot of the crutch, if the slot is too big, you'll hear a double tick, one from the escapement, the other from the crutch clouting the block, conversely, if the block is tight inside the slot, the clock is likely to stop because of drag caused by the block being unable to shift on each vibration, the block will be moving in a slightly different arc of movement than the foot of the crutch even if miniscule because their points of suspension are different.
The foot of the crutch should also be set as near 90 Deg to the movement backplate as possible, otherwise each end of the slot in the foot will describe a different arc of movement as it vibrates and impart the same on the pendulum rod causing it to oscillate, you'll see this as the bob wobbling around, it's also another cause of a clock stopping because the block which is rectangular in section, again can't move if the foot is sitting slightly 'diagonal' across the sides!

As you say, to correct for a gain, the bob needs lowering on the rod!

John.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

The later oil guns (made by Wanner for Myford) work as they should and do not leak, but they are a little expensive.

[RJWParticipant @rjw]

Bill, On your mantle clock, it's anyone's guess what could be wrong with it, but it's probably well overdue for a bit of TLC and bone dry of oil on the pivots, plus, generally if it stopped after winding, it's probably the mainspring that's dry and gummed with old grease and possibly 'set' due to old age and fatigue (tell me about it)!
When this happens, the coils get stuck together and no longer transmit power, this also applies in the same way to wristwatches which are then usually dubbed as being 'overwound'

If the minute hand was seized, it could be anything from dry or badly worn pivots to something gone awry on the striking mechanism, (if it's a chimer) which usually happens when the hand is somewhere near the '5 to' position and tripping the warning for the strike, but if it's just a timepiece, then dry pivots and muck!

Even worn out old dogs will generally tick away like crazy when the pendulum is removed, even if miles out of beat because there's no mass of the bob to impulse!

I doubt it will be out of beat suddenly unless SWIMBO gave it a monumental shove, however, some mantle clocks have a self setting facility for setting in beat, you can check this on yours with the movement being out!
Try pushing the solid part of the crutch to one side (not the loose leader rod if fitted) until the pallets lock on the escape wheel, then push a tad further to move the crutch on the pallet arbour, if it moves very easily, it's probably self setting, if it's tight, then it's a traditional friction collet to allow the crutch to be moved and stay put in that position, if it won't move at all, bad luck, it's the type that requires the crutch rod to be bent to set a clock in beat and can be a right PIA to get spot on!
For self setters, move the pendulum well to one side and let go, the pendulum will eventually settle down into a normal rhythm and in beat!

What you could try short term Bill, and if you're feeling brave, is let down the mainspring(s) to release the coils, but it's only really a short term check to see if they are stuck, and if so, you'll hear and feel them thud when the coils let go, to do this, take off the dial and look for the ratchet wheels on the winding arbours, against these you'll see the clicks with a spring bearing on them!

Fit the key and 'wind' Just sufficient to release pressure on the click, then hold the click off the ratchet wheel and clear of the teeth by pressing on the 'ear' of the click, then gently release 'some' of the spring tension and re-engage the click, keep repeating this until fully unwound,
Warning! be Very Careful doing this, because if you drop your guard or lose grip on the key for a nanosecond, it'll give your fingers a monumental rap leaving your DNA all over the front of the clock and wherever else the ears on the key centrifuge it as it emulates a propellor!
The upside (when the pain subsides), is a nice warm glowing sensation in your fingers, the downside, (apart from flesh sprayed around and pain for a while when washing hands) is that the inner coil of the spring which once grabbed the hook on the barrel arbour now probably won't because of the recoil, and will require the clock stripping anyway to rectify said damage !
Don't ask me how I know!

A good tip for letting down clock springs, is to cut a slot in an old door knob for the ears of the key, then shove it over the key, gives lots of control and avoids self mutilation!

When you've done all that, put a spot of oil on all visible pivots and wind the clock up again, if it's still dead, time to get the spanners out, and if you've never done one before, I recommend a digital camera too to capture images of all the scary bits ………….. especially on 3 train Westminster + Whittington chimers!

John

Edited By RJW on 03/04/2013 15:10:54

[Swarf, Mostly!Participant @swarfmostly]

Hi there, Kwil,

I wonder if your oil gun is the same as mine because mine certainly doesn't seal properly.

The front end works fairly well, the problem is with the filler cap. As I posted in a recent thread, I have the same problem with both the old style and the new style guns.

The design of the gun expects/requires the disk of leather/plastic in the filler cap to seal on the thickness of the 20 SWG wall of the oil gun body.

It has about as much chance of doing that successfully as I have of winning the Lottery (even if I bought a ticket!)

I've been toying with a scheme to modify the filler cap to use an O-ring but I don't have a convincing scheme worked-out yet.

Best regards,

Swarf, Mostly!

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

RJW – John, many thanks for a super run-down on the clock problems (and possible fixes!). At the moment (fingers firmly crossed) the long case is tick-tocking away and has been doing so for about four days, so am hopeful that it will continue. Bob adjustment is going to be difficult as the extension thread on the pendulum is nadgered and fatigue-shortened so may have to fiddle-factor an add-on! The mantel clock continues to wobble away and, having heard previous horror stories of letting down springs, I am content to let it do its own thing for a day or three.

Interesting details re. the self-setters not come across that before. Suspect that this is not that sophisticated. Will try a little careful oiling and see if things improve.

The long case dial is inscribed Thos Major, Bantry – can't find any details for him, in Baillies or on the web, so presumably a one-off.

Rgds

Bill

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

Managed to get a couple of hours tonight re-assembling parts onto my Studer cylindrical grinder.

Made a mandrel and did a trial spring wind with some 0.024" guitar strings. First attempt a bit uneven and slightly oversize so, I think a spring winding tool is on the cards.

Graeme

[Bill PudneyParticipant @billpudney37759]

A few years ago I made a QCTP (post and clamp style) with about 12 "normal" toolholders. Recently I came to the conclusion that I needed some more toolholders, as time was being wasted changing cutters etc. So I bought some metal and proceeded to make swarf.

Todays task was to make the hole (34.6mm diameter) through the 25mm thickness of material to suit the post. In the mill it was progressively drilled up to my biggest drill, 13mm, then it was over to the boring head. Three hours later there was a nice parallel hole that proved to be an excellent fit on the post.

My problem with this was the time taken. For the rest I might use the 4 jaw chuck on the lathe, as I'm much better equipped to bore holes on the lathe.

If I remember I had the same issue with the first batch. I tried a hole saw to get rid of the bulk of the material, but that didn't work too well. Then I resorted to the 4J on the lathe

What do others think?

cheers

Bill

[RJWParticipant @rjw]

Bill, for the adjusting rod on the pendulum, take off the nut and pull the rod out of the bob, cut off the threaded rod flush with the end of the tapered rectangular section rod which fits inside the bob, then drill into the end a few millimetres – this can be a fiddle because the width is quite shallow, I use an archimedian drill on these, it's slower but you can eyeball it level better.

Take a suitable length of threaded rod probably BA screws or similar (make sure you've a similar suitable brass nut to the original – which is likely to be stripped anyway), then turn or file down the end to a diameter and length to a snug fit in the hole, then soft solder into place – you could superglue it, but some purists would pour scorn on that mehod, but as the part isn't especially stressed other than from the weight of the bob, it's strong enough!
Being a model engineer though, I'm sure you could knock out a suitable threaded rod and nut to your own spec' and keep the job 'hand made'

Also clean up the rectangular section of the rod with fine wet or dry so it's a nice sliding fit inside the bob and wax it, being tapered, they often get stuck in lead filled or cast iron bobs due to rust and crap building up and why the rods and nuts get stripped or sheared off, it's always a good idea anyway to lift the bob slightly when adjusting the rating nut just to take the weight off it!

John

[RJWParticipant @rjw]

Bill, Re the clockmaker 'Major', it's not likely to be a 'one off' more than likely that Loomes and Bailey haven't recorded any known examples by that maker, each edition that gets published includes many more previously unknown makers!
My Loomes Vol II book is 31mm thick, Vol III by comparison is 50mm, such is the number of additions!

Major may also not have been a product of the apprenticeship system in that he didn't become a Freeman of the Clockmakers company which would have entitled him to engrave his name of movements and dials, and many such crafts people moved around a lot to avoid arrest!
There is also the possibility of the name being a 'Vanity' engraving and could actually be the name of the person for whom the clock was manufactured, or even the name of the maker and the place of residence of the owner!

There are 11 clockmakers by the name of Major in Loomes 3rd edition of Watch & Clockmakers of the World, and most of them in the Midlands and South of England – Evesham & Stourbridge, Brighton, London, Devon, Cheltenham, Nottingham, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if your chap was related to one of these and decided to 'up sticks' and move to the South Western tip of Ireland!
I have a pocket watch made by a Huddersfield maker who moved lock stock and barrel to Filey for some reason, which must have been a bit of an upheaval back in 1850, a lot of them did the same, many even swapping countries!

John.

Edited By RJW on 04/04/2013 10:24:38

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Bill P.,

I know it sounds like admitting defeat, but why not see if you can get a local engineering company with a big drill to drill all your blocks within a mm or 3 of finished size?

Neil

[Anonymous]

It looks like I might have fixed my CNC mill problem. After replacing a couple of the iffy crimps, not much change. Generally the spindle would start, but pushing on the PCB would cause it to stop.

I disconnected all the wires and connectors and removed the control PCB to give it a good look over. One of the solder joints on the connector associated with the speed control signal looked decidedly iffy, pitted and dull, which indicates a dry joint. On another part of the PCB, but associated with the same signal, there was some evidence of a hair or similar having interfered with the masking and etching process. I've seen this before at work, I dumped that PCB manufacturer and then they went bust; it can lead to open or intermittent tracks. I repaired both areas and reassembled. So far so good, the mill is running at the moment and every 30 minutes or so I nip out and do 10 start/stop cycles. The mill has started every time, and pushing on the PCB/connector/ wires has no effect.

Fingers crossed the problem is fixed.

Regards,

Andrew

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

John, again many thanks for a most helpful and illuminating post – especially the variations in clockmakers recorded.

The long case has now had the bob moved about 1/2" and reset to see what difference in time-keeping results. If greater length needed, I shall use your suggestions for extra pendulum length.

The mantel clock will be returned to its case shortly to see if it continues to run.

Rgds

Bill

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Just been to a boot sale. Wife happy getting 20 carpet tiles for £3.

I got a big Eclipse tap wrench for £2 and a smaller Millers Falls Co. (so pre-1980) one for the same. I now have three and just need a fourth between the two new ones to be bale to cover all my taps.

Prize was an unused Dormer 5/8" MT2 blacksmith's drill for 20p. Ideal for opening out holes just thet bit more before boring, even if I have to drill 1/2"/13mm first.

Neil

[RJWParticipant @rjw]

Bill, bear in mind when you oil your clock, that you will be both washing into the pivots any crud that may be around the oil sinks and also, loosening any congealed oil bearing brass and metal debris that is compacted in the pivot holes, so expect rapid wear once it does kick into life, its life may be very short lived!

Enjoyed a brisk sunny walk up the seafront into town only to find the fishmonger on the market had binned the day because they'd nowt to sell, the recent bad weather had resulted in the trawlers being confined to port,
Had a quick shuftie at this months Model Engineer in the newsagents, but nothing took my fancy in it so put it back again!.

Spent the rest of the day hunched over my bench doing battle with a well bodged and butchered C18th 30 hour longcase movement!
Every pinion was so clogged up with rope fibres, the leaves were no longer visible, every pivot in it was 'hourglassed' with wear, which means rebushing every pivot hole, fortunately there was enough meat on the pivots for them to see another day or three!
The hammer shaft had been joined up in the middle with a bit of copper tube and alradite, and both ends of the shaft were fatigue fractured and about to shear off, that'll be a joy to fix!

One time train pivot and arbour had been cut back to accommodate a very neat 'mod' to by way of a brass block rivetted to the front plate in order to shift the wheel back onto a previously unworn part of its associated pinion, but which part is now actually worn more than the original bit, and because the arbour has been chopped down and now way too short to do owt else with it, I've to reverse the mod and swap ends with the block and move the wheel back to its original less worn positition on the pinion, then maybe shift the wheel itself! !
(Thinks, may leave said arbour where it is, shift the wheel and then rebush) ………. funny how you spot alternatives when you see thoughts in print!)

Oh yeah, it's got crappy aluminium hands dressed up to look antique, had blind head nails used instead of taper pins on both movement pillars and dial feet, but at least they were steel! every tooth on the escape wheel is nicely hooked over because some berk probably moved the clock with the weight and pendulum in place ………… and so it goes on!

But it's starting to look good again!

John.
 

Edited By RJW on 06/04/2013 19:05:58

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Well the sun did tempt me to the garden for most of the morning but the draw of the workshop was too great and I could resist no longer. Knocked up a couple of blanking plugs and an adaptor for the air hose and then tried my big Easton & Anderson on air for the first time. Needed a bit of adjustment to the timing and big end but I'm happy with the first tests considering there are no gaskets, gland or piston packing fitted yet.

 

 

J

Edited By JasonB on 06/04/2013 20:02:22

[Boiler BriParticipant @boilerbri]

Just got back from my day trip to North Wales model engineering society. I joined this club two years ago, just as they had been removed from their running site.

Due to the winter and work commitments I have only managed to get down a couple of times. I live in West Yorkshire so it’s a fair treck.

The speed at which things are moving along is impressive, to say that it’s all ‘handraulic work’. I feel from today’s visit that they will be laying track in a couple of week and possibly by late June early July they will be able to get some passengers.

A really enjoyable day in the company of some very nice people. Well worth the travel.

Picture in my albums.

Bri

[GaryMParticipant @garym]

I visited the Anson Engine Museum in Cheshire, North West England. **LINK**

It has a great collection of internal combustion engines of various types. It also has a few steam engines, including the 250HP Stott mill engine which steams a few times a year and occasional craft workshops.

Gary

[AndyfParticipant @andyf]

Well, Gary, there's a thing. I live in Sale and worked in Wilmslow from 1976 until retiring in 2006, and had never head of the Anson Engine Museum until now. Looks worth a trip – shame it doesn't open on weekdays, because I still go to Wilmslow every Wednesday for a 5pm pint with old colleagues.

Andy

[WindyParticipant @windy30762]

I went with the P.E.E.M.S club to the Anson Engine Museum some years ago and what an interesting day out.

Looking at a massive Doxford engine in bits then a Rover Gas Turbine and the numerous other engines made a very enjoyable day.

Paul

[mark mcParticipant @markmc72333]

Trying to machine a new backplate for a 125mm chuck i got as my wee lathe uses a 100 chuck. This is not as easy as i thought it would be, oh well back to work.

[GaryMParticipant @garym]

Posted by Andyf on 08/04/2013 07:14:04:

Well, Gary, there's a thing. I live in Sale and worked in Wilmslow from 1976 until retiring in 2006, and had never head of the Anson Engine Museum until now. Looks worth a trip – shame it doesn't open on weekdays, because I still go to Wilmslow every Wednesday for a 5pm pint with old colleagues.

Andy

Hi Andy,

Definitely worth a trip if you're in the North West. You're unlikely to spot it when passing because it is hidden away off the beaten track. They do open Friday so maybe persuade your old mates to go for a drink on Friday instead.

Gary

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Finally fitted replacement bearing to bandsaw, reset blade angle & tested on 1×2 wood, looks good, will test on metal later. Removed shield from old bearing to see, with magnifier, what made it 'rough' found that a sliver of chrome plate had come off the ball cage & was on edge of track, washed out with white spirits, renewed grease(high pressure/temp lithium base) wrapped up & put away for another use.

George

[WindyParticipant @windy30762]

Been tidying the garage for the last few days and trying to decide what can I get rid of to give some more room.

If I get rid of something will bet in a while will find a use for it.

It’s like musical chairs will probably just get rearranged and back to square one.

A sad question and open to suggestions as the clock is ticking there will be a time when my workshop will have to be disposed off hopefully when I am steaming in heaven or stoking the boiler down below.

As the mill and lathe are rather weighty plus all the other parts any ideas of a reasonable way to sell it all and not get ripped off by persons taking advantage of the situation.

Paul

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