What collet chuck dimentions for s Sieg SX2?

[martin olesenParticipant @martinolesen66224]

[martin olesenParticipant @martinolesen66224]

Hello,

I plan to buy a Sieg SX2 mill, but normally i comes with a drill chuck, and it is not good for milling, i heard

Therefore i would like to buy a Collet chuck instead, with a selection of collets, ea 4 mm to 12 mm, or something like that.

In the meantime i am in doubt over all the different numbers used to specify dimentions on the chucks, so it fit the spindle on the Sieg SX2.

Therefore, can anyone tell me what collet type (dimentions, numbers, ect) i shall look for so it will fit the spindle in the SX2?

Also, have anybody recomendations to a good set with such a Sieg SX2 compatible collec chuck, with a selection of chucks, from ea Banggood, or Aliexpress……or shall i not buy such tool there…..on the other hand, this is only for hobby use, and i am a beginner….?
Thanks for all advices.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

If it is a new SX2 and you are in heh UK then that will be coming form Axminster and comes with a No3 Morse Taper spindle. If it is the SX2P (Plus) you are thinking of from ARC Eurotrade then they have an R8 Taper.

In either case you have tow options for collets.

1. Direct fit finger collets that fit straight into the spindle taper, these give a bit more head room as they do not really protrude beyond the end of the spindle but you need one size for each diameter you intend to hold.

2. Use a collet chuck that has a shank to fit within the respective spindle taper and then get a range of collets to suit that, The ER type collets would be the usual choice and on that size machine ER20 if just being used for tool holding or the larger ER25 or ER 32 if you also want to use them for work holding in the future. Each of these collets will hold a small range of sizes so you could also hold a drill bit or imperial cutter in the right size collet for example 9.8mm drill or 3/8" cutter will fit a nominal 10-9mm ER collet.

Source I would say go to a known hobby supplier as direct from China can be a gamble and easier to deal with if you have any problems. A typical ER25 starter set, you can add more collets as needed and the equivalent MT3 shanked one.

Edited By JasonB on 18/11/2020 07:31:08

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

Hi Martin have a look at the Arcerotrade web site as they have a selection of tooling for this mill and a starter set which may help. https://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/Milling-Machines/SIEG-SX27-Mill/SX27-Starter-Sets/SX27-Mill-Starter-Set-2-091-030-00352

David

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

David's link is to the wrong machine, these are the starter sets for the SX2P, I'm sure ARC could put together as set for a SX2 as well but taper will be different.

[martin olesenParticipant @martinolesen66224]

Hello all,

First of all, thank you very much for taking your time to guide me in this, very much apriciated.

I am new to this, and what confuses me is all the different abberviations used in the world of cnc, and milling chucks.

MT3, r8, ER25, and others…….is there a explanation on all these somewhere do you think, what they mean, and also……some collets are measured in inc other in mm, is there converter adabters from inch collets to mm collets?

By the way, i live in Denmark.

again, thank you very much for your help.

regards

Martin

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Posted by martin olesen on 21/11/2020 08:48:40:

Hello all,

First of all, thank you very much for taking your time to guide me in this, very much apriciated.

I am new to this, and what confuses me is all the different abberviations used in the world of cnc, and milling chucks.

MT3, r8, ER25, and others…….is there a explanation on all these somewhere do you think, what they mean, and also……some collets are measured in inc other in mm, is there converter adabters from inch collets to mm collets?

By the way, i live in Denmark.

again, thank you very much for your help.

regards

Martin

Martin,

You just need collets to match the sizes of the cutters that you buy. The differences between Imperial and Metric are too small for an adapter, however they are different enough to not be compatable.

MT is morse taper, ebay is full of photos if you search mt er or r8

[PETER ROACHParticipant @peterroach92938]

Hello,

i brought my X3 direct from Sieg ( before aximinster and arc were dealers, it was also cheaper to do so) and if you look at the options, they offered there own version of a collet system, which I have with 6,10,12 &16 mm collets. I also had the mt finger collects but have rarely used them. I have however acquired recently an autocollet as was given a large number of threaded end cutters. Previous used plain shaft cutters. Have serious think whether you chose R8 or MT, as limitations either way.

Peter

[OldironParticipant @oldiron]

Hi Martin. There are many articles on the web on tapers. This one from Wiki' is quite good. >> Tapers

 

regards

Edited By Oldiron on 21/11/2020 09:52:47

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

MT is Morse Taper. It has been around for a long time and is often found on larger drills. It comes in different sizes from MT0 (small) to MT7 (large). It is good for drills but not so good for milling. As a result when Morse Tapers are used for milling they require a drawbar. This is like a long bolt that pulls the tooling into the spindle to act against milling forces that loosen a standard Morse Taper. The problem with Morse tapers is that they can cause problems when trying to remove them from their socket. There are a number of threads on this forum regarding stuck tapers.

The Bridgeport Company wanted something to replace Morse Tapers so they designed the R8 taper. This still uses a drawbar to pull the tooling into the spindle but is easier to release than Morse tapers.

There are many other tapers available due to limitations with R8 as well such as ISO30.

Morse Taper and R8 finger collets are made with slots in them that allow the collet to close onto a parallel shank of a tool and grip it when the drawbar pulls them into the spindle. The fingers are fixed at one end so the grip inside the collet is not as high as it is at the end where the fingers can move. This means that these collets need to be closely matched to the diameter they have to hold. A 1/2" collet (Ø12.7mm) will not grip a Ø12mm tool as well as a 12mm collet. The result is you may end up with a lot of collets for each size required.

ER collets are split from both ends in alternating positions and have two angles for the holder and the closing nut. This gives a more parallel squeeze and so the ER collets can hold a range of sizes. For instance you can get an ER32 collet that will hold tools from Ø13mm down to Ø12mm. Smaller ER collets such as ER11 have a smaller size range. The size for an ER32 is nominally the outside diameter of part of the collet, not the size of tooling it can hold. ER32 typically holds up Ø20mm for example.

To use an ER32 collet (for example) in a mill with MT or R8 spindles you need an MT to ER32 collet chuck or an R8 to ER collet chuck and ER collets to go into the ER collet chuck. You only need to buy the collet chuck that suits the spindle of the machine you end up with.

You can also buy an ER collet chuck with a parallel shank and fit it into a finger collet that suits your spindle. Here are some typical examples of ER11 on a parallel shank that can be fitted into a larger ER collet or finger collets. An R8 to ER32 collet chuck. An R8 finger collet with a parallel shank ER32 collet chuck.

Hope this helps.

Martin C

Spelling and finger trouble corrected.

Edited By Martin Connelly on 21/11/2020 09:57:09

[martin olesenParticipant @martinolesen66224]

Hello Martin and all,

Thank you so much for taking your time to write so much goos information to me, it is really helpfull.

I know i am a bit slow.., but one last question, if i choose for example to buy a Sieg x2 super (i can get i for around 1000 EUR here in denmark) will it then automatecially come with a MT3 spindle fit (sorry for my wrong wording), or do Sieg X2 mills comes with different fit for collet chucks depending of country, and maybe dealer?

in other words, if i just look for MT3 collet chuks, will i then be sure i fit the Sieg X2 super i want to buy?

Again, thank you very much for all your help.

regards

martin

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

The machine will come with some tooling. I suggest buying the machine first to be sure of the spindle taper you have. Then buy tooling to suit the machine.

Martin C

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

They are available with both types of spindle, the dealer you are buying from will be able to tell you or have that information on their website.

[martin olesenParticipant @martinolesen66224]

Hello,

ok, thank you very much.

regards

martin

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Martin don't buy ANYTHING this weekend. Hide that credit card.
If you know so little that you don't even understand the common abreviations you need to do a bit of reading first which will save you a lot of money in the long run.

Just above your first post in this conversation you will see a little link "latest posts". This will take you to a page full of subject titles but don't click on them yet. Look fot the line of numbers just at the top above the green line and click the highest, repeat this until the dates are near the beginning of the year. Now you can start reading the masses of information already available about selecting a mill, cutters, chucks etc. Remember you can right click and display in another tab to avoid losing your place in the long list of topics.
When you have spent two or three weeks reading you will know a lot more.
Also learn to use Google for words you don't understand.

Edited By Bazyle on 21/11/2020 10:52:43

[PETER ROACHParticipant @peterroach92938]

Martin,

seig do a large range, dealers don’t stock the entire range, but only a small offering. See seigind.com or **LINK**

if you want a specific machine, find a good import agent and buy what you really want, rather than second best, cause the dealer has it. But echo as above , think before you hit the credit card.

Peter

[martin olesenParticipant @martinolesen66224]

Hello all,

Again thanks to all answers, also to the one that feel unnecessary sarcasm and irony helps to transfer knowlege!

Regards

Martin

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by PETER ROACH on 21/11/2020 11:01:01:

Martin,

seig do a large range, dealers don’t stock the entire range, but only a small offering. See seigind.com or **LINK**

if you want a specific machine, find a good import agent and buy what you really want

I'm not sure if that is the right direction for someone with such little knowledge of what they are buying. If the dealer were willing to get a special order in and you were happy to wait 6months plus which I think is Sieg's current lead in then what if there is a problem with the machine? Dealer will not have experience of it so may only be able to offer limited help and what if there is a spare part needed as the dealer is unlikely to keep stock of parts the won't sell.

It's clear that the OP does not know what he wants from what he may not want and could end up with a Lemon.

[Stuart Smith 5Participant @stuartsmith5]

Martin

Jason did a series Milling for beginners in Model Engineers’ Workshop magazine. There is a forum thread with more info to go with the magazine articles: **LINK**

Arceurotrade have published a book I think based on this series: **LINK**

It may be worth looking at if you haven’t already.

Stuart

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Bit late joining this thread but my web page on milling machines has info on (some) of the various taper types and a few useful inks.

John

[martin olesenParticipant @martinolesen66224]

Stuart an Journeyman, great, i will for sure look at what you suggest.

I actuallly do know what i want, i want a hobby mill for lighter milling in alluminium that i maybe can later on convert into a cnc machine.

Right now i have a small Proxxon MF70 mill, that i have converted into cnc, running Estelcam, using Onshape CAD, but i wanta larger mill to be able to mill nicely in alluminium.

I will most proberly want to buy the Sieg X2 from the danish dealer, Globaltools.dk, but my reason for asking the spindel thing was that i planned to buy the collets and collet chuk from ea Banggood in advance, as a full set an save some bucks, because i will first buy the machine later.

regards

Martin

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by PETER ROACH on 21/11/2020 11:01:01:

Martin,

seig do a large range, dealers don’t stock the entire range, but only a small offering. See seigind.com or **LINK**

if you want a specific machine, find a good import agent and buy what you really want, rather than second best, cause the dealer has it. But echo as above , think before you hit the credit card.

 

Peter

Hi Peter,

Some clarification, and corrections are in order:

• The SX2 or the SX2P are small mini-mills. It would be too costly for Martin to import by himself direct from China, even if SIEG were to supply him directly, probability of which are next to zero nowadays. He would be better off looking for supply of the machine from a reputable European dealer.
• ARC introduced the X3* back in 2003, and promoted the SIEG brand, before SIEG understood the meaning of branding, and well before Axminster decided to to promote the SIEG brand. In the early 2000s, it was possibly for any individual to purchase directly from SIEG. Most such individuals saw the machine in our catalogue, as well as at the shows we attended, and then decided to buy direct. Originally, SIEG obliged, but as the dealer network grew, many dealers persuaded SIEG to re-consider their position on direct supply to individuals in areas where SIEG has dealers. In-turn, distributor loyalty with SIEG has grown to a certain extent.
• Each dealer – distributor decides which machines they wish to sell, as well as the versions of the machine which they wish to sell – MT/R8. If the end user/buyer wishes to buy an alternative machine or alternative version, the dealer decides if they wish to supply the version the buyer wants. In most cases, SIEG will not interfere in this process.
• ARC only sells models and versions of SIEG machines which it wants to sell. This is based on 18 years of ARCs sales and service experience in this industry. Requests for models and versions outside the range we sell are politely declined.
• Earlier, with reference to collect chuck systems, you mentioned: 'they offered their own version of a collet system, which you have with 6,10,12 &16 mm collets.'. Yes they do. They look similar to ER collect systems, but are non-standard, with limited availability of collets, and generally expensive. In the early days we used to offer non-standard collet systems which were same as SIEG, but quickly dropped them after understanding limitations – especially for sales, and costs which are higher than ER. I believe that one or two competitors still sell the non-standard system.

* Although the X3 is still sold by SIEG in small numbers, it was discontinued by ARC in 2013, and replaced with SX3 – Brushless motor version.

It is important that Martin considers his direction based on current trends, and for this reason, the above clarification is made, without any disrespect to you Peter.

It would be better for Martin to consider Bazyls, Stuart Smith 5s, and Journeymans suggestions.

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 21/11/2020 15:19:59

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I opted for er25, it goes up to 16mm. If you intend to use er collets on the lathe with a mounting plate as well as on the mill, then er32 would be a better choice for both machines to share.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Martin,

The SX2 spindle is usually MT3 or R8.

So, depending on which version you buy/get from Globaltools.dk, consider:

MT3 – ER25 chuck system or

R8 – ER25 chuck system

If you want to buy variable quality of such collet systems – consider the Banggood route. You will not get any links on here as this has been kept off discussion – read Code of Conduct link

Generally, for re-sell value, SX2s with R8 spindles are better, and also considered better for cnc conversions. To understand, read a book, or do some research.

Ketan at ARC.

[martin olesenParticipant @martinolesen66224]

Hi Ketan,

Thank you for your very informative text.

I will for sure buy from the official Danish rep, Globaltools, their prices are ok, and then i have service and support close to.

regards

Martin

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