Wear with Shaper machine Ram

[lee hawkins 1Participant @leehawkins1]

[lee hawkins 1Participant @leehawkins1]

I have a Elliott 10m Shaping machine, I was using it the other day and noticed that when I do my daily oiling up, turn the machine on , at the front of the ram small amount of oil over flows down the front , this I would say is normal, but should this oil be Black?

I took the ram off the other day gave it all a good clean up, it made no difference

anybody else notice this with their shapers, I have always thought this is due to wear

Thanks

lee

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Hello Lee,

I don't recall seeing that on my Elliott 10M but it doessn't sound terminal; I would be inclined to ignore it.

I assume you found the ram easy to move when you cleaned it and the gibs were not binding, those would be rather more definitive indicators of imprended trouble I think than just sweeping out over oiling

Regards Brian.

[_Paul_Participant @_paul_]

It's quite normal though strangely my Boxford 8" produces more of this carbon black coloured oil than all my other shapers for some reason, my Elliott 10M does produce a little, what oil are you using I find T68 slideway oil is best.

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

_Paul_

My Boxford did the same when I first started using it.

I didn't remove the ram when I got it, so can only assume it was years of accumulated gunk being pushed out.

Seems to have settled, with clean oil now appearing.

I do appreciate the shaper's ability to produce nice flat surfaces.

Geoff – Need to crawl under her indoors' Ka to plug exhaust hole. It's raining again today!

[lee hawkins 1Participant @leehawkins1]

When I did remove the ram and the gib, only one gib on mine, on reasebley, I found it very fiddly with the ajustments of the ajuster nuts and screw bolts to get the ram moving nice and free, smooth running with minimal free play, the slightest turn of one of the ajusters would tighten the ram, at one point I had the machine running and i ajusted the bolts,, with it running if you over tighten one of the ajusters, the ram would start to thump! so you back off, I did get it sorted, but somtines I do hear it start to give a faint thump so I give it a oiling,always seems to do the trick, but as I have said, I am not sure about the overflow of oil from the ram being Black,

I was wondering on what Paul asked about what oil I am using, well I have only always used standard engine oil, could this be the answer,

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Lee

Engine, or any other non-machine rated / hydraulic, oil is almost certainly a large part of your problem. All oils suffer from deterioration over time leaving "varnish-like" deposits which build up on slides and moving parts. Machine and hydraulic oil blends tend to suffer much less than the more complcated mixes needed to cope with engine work but they still do it given enough time. When "varnish" particles wear off they discolour any oil wiped from the joint. The darker the discolouration the more bits are being wiped off.

Cure is to clean well and wipe over with fresh oil when finishing work for the day and before starting next time. Best to do same with ovenight wait about every fortnight if the machine isn't being used unless you have finally got it clean. Fresh machine oil seems to slowly dissolve the "varnish" stuff and lift it out of the pores in the cast iron. You will know when it is clean because the wipe off after overnight, or longer, standing will be oil colour. Takes a long time to get things back to clean on a slightly neglected machine. My Smart & Brown 1024 was not significantly abused but was clearly often rode hard and put away wet. Took around 5 years of fresh oil and wipe off before the bed came back to its proper state, still working on the slides. Fully clean surfaces do work more smoothly but the discolour and deposits as bought made little difference to performance with tenth thou accuracy achieved with almost casual ease.

I have seen allegedly well worn machines where most of the apparent wear was due to uneven deposit build up, ten thou and greater, so rectification consisted mainly of major scrubbing and careful re-assembly. Although shifting the apparent wear isn't too difficult, given sufficient elbow grease, so the machine re-assembles nicely I've never found it possible to get all the "stuff" off by scrubbing. The surface may well look clean but black oil syndrome appears once its put back to work. Following the fresh oil & wipe treatment eventually seems to do the deed. Certainly shifts enough "stuff" to need a couple of gib adjustments as the machine settles down.

Clive

Edited By Clive Foster on 11/05/2014 15:49:37

[lee hawkins 1Participant @leehawkins1]

Thank you for the instructions/Advice Clive,

I will get some proper dedicated machine oil and see what Happens

lee

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