Warco WM250

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

Here you go Jason, this is what the drive looks like on the WM250V.

It is currently set up in the high speed range, for low speed, the belt to the spindle is removed and a second belt i added from the idler/reduction pulley on the left to the spindle.

Edited By Graeme W on 09/02/2017 20:23:59

[DustyParticipant @dusty]

Been thinking, (my wife says that's dangerous when I start to think) I could take some photographs and maybe do a short article on the conversion. It appears that I might be the first to make the change and it could help others in the future. I have received a lot of help via this forum, seems like a good way of repaying.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

And Neil will pay you for the article which wil pay for the new motor

Thanks for the pics Graeme

[DustyParticipant @dusty]

Just seen your posting Graeme, that looks nothing like mine.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Dusty, The photo does show how Warco are now able to get a low speed of 30 and still keep the torque reasonable as the the twin pully setup allows the motor to still spin at a reasonable speed even though the spindle speeds are now lower.

The disadvantage is that when in low range you have less of a spread of speeds, maybe Graeme can confirm but I think low is something like 30 -500 and high 150- 2500 so you would probably end up having to change the belt more often whereas our old machines can do most things when left in te low range of 50-950.

J

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Dusty, I for one would appreciate a write up, I have a feeling that this is something I may well need to do sometime in the future.

John

[DustyParticipant @dusty]

Jason,

I realise that advances have been made, sometimes not for the better. My lathe's range is/was 50 to 500 and 500 to 2000. I like the new set up a lot but I feel that it is more work than I would care for. I want to use the lathe for making things not repairing itself. Looks like I may have talked myself into an article

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

… Dusty, I for one would appreciate a write up, I have a feeling that this is something I may well need to do sometime in the future.

John

Me too…
G

… Just seen your posting Graeme, that looks nothing like mine.
Dusty.

Mine neither ?
G

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

It's not supposed to look like either of yours as it is the AC 3-phase inverter version but gives an idea of what may be required to get the best out of a 3-phase conversion.

Edited By JasonB on 10/02/2017 13:35:19

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Ahhh that explains it; I think I'll stick with what I've got at the mo' … so far it's given me good running, fingers & toes X'd, touch wood & all that…

​
My lowest speed…

George.

Edited By mechman48 on 10/02/2017 13:55:20

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Out of interest for those who may be faced with having to convert at some time I snipped these photos off the "bluemachining" yahoo group which show a 280 with Weiss factory fitted 3-phase and VFD as they are not much different to teh 250s

Still used single belt to spindle with two pully options but spindle pully is smaller, notof fitted to back of bed via standoffs and teh tensioner wheel is needed as the motor can't be moved on its mount.

Clicky for a bigger picky.

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

George, bit of variation over the years. This is my 2007 vintage WM250.

John

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

That sounds like the "toothed belt" Dusty is talking about having.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by JasonB on 09/02/2017 20:28:33:

And Neil will pay you for the article which wil pay for the new motor

Thanks for the pics Graeme

Towards – unless it's a very complex conversion

Neil

[john kennedy 1Participant @johnkennedy1]

Hello. My machine is a few years old now.It looks the same as Mechman48 shows.

My original motor didn't last too long but to be fair I abused it cutting large diameter steel.

There are some photos in my album listed as '3 phase'

Really could do with a proper Gates belt to fit the spindle pulley.

Hope it helps.

John

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Jason, yes pretty sure it's the same. Mod to fit new motor "could" be fairly straightforward. The 1/4" black plate basically supports everything. Remove that and the motor, intermediate pulley and control box all go with it. Just the small matter of reattaching the new one

John

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

… My machine is the 2012 version bought at Harrogate exhibition.

Geo.

[DustyParticipant @dusty]

Neil, I do not do complex these days. I have ordered the new motor and VFD today I have managed to get a 1hp in 71 frame size, the 80 was just to big. I have put the old motor back in so that I could take photo's. Jason you are right that is exactly the set up I have. I have a suspicion that the tooth belt may be a bastard size. I don't think Warco have any as they had memory failure over the fact that the WM250 of that time were even fitted with a tooth belt.

No more workshop today as it is rather cold and I need to move the lathe in order to get access to the back. Will need help with that as I have a slipped disc at the moment.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Dusty I don't think you're on my list of existing contributors

Drop and email to neil.wyatt@mytimemedia.com and I'll send you the guidance for authors tohelp you get off to a good start.

Thanks

Neil

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

 

Dusty, the belt might have a designation on it….. Something like 7M 820….

These are pretty handy folk…. http://industrialbeltdrives.com/quote/v-belts/polyflex-jb/

Beeline engineering in Milton Keynes.

They supplied me with belts for my Chester 9 x 20 and for my SPG 2129 lathe….I collect from them when I visit my daughter in Northampton.

I have a transmision specialist near me but nowhere near as good as Beeline and they are cheaper too…

Edited By John Rudd on 10/02/2017 16:59:00

[DustyParticipant @dusty]

Whilst waiting for my new motor to arrive I have been stripping some of the parts from my lathe ready for modification. I spoke earlier about the tacho, you were right John it all seems to run from the filter, if my understanding is right I only need to connect that to power and its all systems go. If I use the existing NVR in the power lead can I connect the filter power to the out side as well as the VFD or is there a problem with that?

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

Dusty,

In terms of wiring the vfd, remove the Live and Neutral wires that went to the L1 & L2 terminals on the old speed control board. These two wires need to go to the Live and Neutral In on the vfd. You may need to extend the wires.

I cannot be specific about the terminals as I dont know which inverter you bought.

The speed control pot mounted in the front of the lathe will need wiring into the vfd too, the motor wiring from the motor terminals needs to go to the inverter motor terminals..

If not already programmed for an external analog input, the inverter will need programming for this and for any switch inputs you use for start/stop fwd/rev etc….

If not already fitted, you should add a fuse for the vfd too….( thats my opinion, other folk may have differing ideas….speak up! )

Edited By John Rudd on 14/02/2017 09:45:37

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

I agree with John. We will need to see the manual on the VFD and will need to tell us what controls you want as well as the speed control. (Forward / reverse switch, safety interlocks etc. ) I also fitted a three position biased centre off toggle switch for jogging the lathe in forward and reverse. I initially just used the preset jog speed on the VFD but later added a seperate jog speed control. This speed control had a maximum setting of about 33% of the normal maximum speed. I find this usefull for screwcutting.

Les.

[Cabinet EnforcerParticipant @cabinetenforcer]

Posted by Dusty on 13/02/2017 19:53:52:

Whilst waiting for my new motor to arrive I have been stripping some of the parts from my lathe ready for modification. I spoke earlier about the tacho, you were right John it all seems to run from the filter, if my understanding is right I only need to connect that to power and its all systems go. If I use the existing NVR in the power lead can I connect the filter power to the out side as well as the VFD or is there a problem with that?

I can relay my experience with a warco 280 if that would help. I was unable to juice the tacho board on the back of the display unit so that it would run of its own accord. I was unhappy about running mains voltage wires into the front of the headstock just for the sake of the tacho, so I butchered a phone charger and wired it into the fused supply in the control box, then ran the 5V cable through and patched it in to the power supply board after some testing to work out how far back up the circuit I needed to put it to get it all working.

You can of course use the VFD display to show speed, but I preferred the VFD to be properly enclosed in the control box, and the tacho to come from measuring the actual spindle speed, in case I alter the pulleys.

As for the motor fitment, the 280 has threaded holes in the bed, revealed when the rear control box is removed, the 250 may well be the same?

So I cut off the lower half of the control box, and mounted the VFD in the upper half.

The threaded holes were at the spacing for an 80 frame motor, I chose the higher power option at 1.1Kw, and just mounted it on threaded bar and nuts, which allows for tensioning the belt (if a little rudimentary).

I then used nutlink belt and a pair of taperlock pulleys to finish the job, obviously they go straight on the motor, but happily the 280 spindle is a simple M40 thread so the old pulley was spun off and easily replaced with a taperlock one.

The whole thing was so easy that I was able to get the lathe going without needing a working lathe to make parts, obviously I could refine the setup a little now, but it works well enough as it is.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Cabinet Enforcer, can I ask what spindle speeds you are able to get with that setup and are they pullys two sizes giving you a high and low range? Also is it a 2 pole or 4 pole motor.

I will have to have a look in the back of my 280 to see if teh bed is tapped.

Thanks, Jason

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