Warco WM250

[DustyParticipant @dusty]

I am loathe to go down that route Mark as I do not know what caused my motor to burn out. I am still weighing up my options. I can see advantages and disadvantages to both. If I go down the 3ph VFD route it will be slightly more work to fit and I loose the Tacho for spindle speed, but I end up with a better system. Replacing the motor with the one from Warco I suppose I should replace the speed control board as well the cost then comes out at about the same.

[Mark P.Participant @markp]

Dusty,I replaced the speed control board and then found the motor was up the creek! New motor arriving shortly. Had I known that I would have to cut the lathe about I would have gone the VFD route! I think it would have worked out a bit cheaper with about the same amount of adapting.
Mark P.

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Dusty, replacing the tacho should be fairly easy. There is plenty of room in the headstock behind the front panel. I fitted one of these Trexon Tachulator to my mill ages ago. I am sure there will be other versions about by now. There are even Arduino based ones about which could be built for a few quid!

John

Edited By Journeyman on 08/02/2017 10:26:01

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

Why does removing the orig motor and controller require a replacement tacho?

When I converted my lathe, the job was straightforward….the pickup was mounted in the headstock and the readout remained on the front….

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

John, On the older model WM250 I don't think the tacho is a completeley seperate unit. It seems to connect or be part of the speed controller board. If you remove the controller board, fillter etc. I think the tacho goes with it as far as I can see from the rather useless wiring diagram in the manual. I stand to be corrected though!

John

[DustyParticipant @dusty]

John as you know I am a complete idiot as regards electrikery, does the tacho not need a power supply of 12 volts or something? With a VFD I would not have that, probably missing something again.

[DustyParticipant @dusty]

Am I right in thinking that if I go from a 1hp single phase DC motor to a 3ph I can reduce to a 3/4hp motor?

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi Dusty,
If the diagram that Mitchael posted on the 31st of Jan. is the same as the one in your manual (Which you have not yet posted.) then the item that is marked "Filter" probably contains a 12 volt power supply for the tachometer.
There is no such thing as a "single phase DC motor" The term phase only has a meaning with an AC supply. A 1 HP motor provides the same power no mater what the power source is. If you go for a three phase motor I think you will find that a 3/4 HP and a 1 HP will have the same frame size. I would go for the larger one as it will have more torque. Remember that a 1 HP motor will only produce 1 HP at it's rated speed. If it is running at half it's rated speed it will only produce about 1/2HP.

Les.

[DustyParticipant @dusty]

Thanks Les, a bit of muddled thinking on my part re phases. The diagram that Michael posted did originate from me so it is my manuals diagram. I can see your point re torque. This is a steep learning curve for me and I am getting too old for all this. But it does keep the old grey matter working.

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi Dusty,
I chose a 1 HP motor when I modified my lathe (Chester DB10G) from a 3/4HP single phase to 3 phase. I had to make a new toothed belt pulley and 3 step V belt pulley as the original motor had a 16 mm shaft and the new one had a 19 mm shaft. I had to make the toothed pulley with 21 teeth as opposed to the 19 teeth on the original due to the larger shaft diameter. I also had to modify the rear splash guard as the 3 phase motor was longer than the original one.

Les.

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

The KB speed control boards do not have any supply capability for peripherals….

It is conceivable that the filter board may have a 12 v supply integrated, as has my big lathe…

As an aside, wnen I converted my Chester 9 x 20 to 3ph, the original motor had a 14 mm shaft, the new mitor I got had a 19 mm shaft, rather than have to make a new pulley which was a special anyway, I machined the shaft on the motor…..Motor dismantled, rotor supported with a live centre in the tail stock, and diameter reduced as required…

QED….

[DustyParticipant @dusty]

Mark, let me know how you get on with the fitting. I am coming to the conclusion that you may have chosen the right route. Due to the way the lathe is constructed and the physical size of a 80 frame size motor it is nigh on impossible to fit the motor without a major redesigning and rebuild of the headstock end where the motor is mounted. There is roughly 3" difference in dia of the two motors on top of which the 3ph motor has a ruddy great junction box on top which is in the way of everything, even turning the motor upside down will not work because it then fouls the drip tray.

If anyone has done this conversion and has a simple way of doing it I would be pleased to hear from them.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

It would also be interesting if any of the owners of the newer AC motored version of the 250 could post some pics of the factory motor and belt/pully arrangements.

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

Dusty,

I sent you a private message, check your in box.

John

[Mark P.Participant @markp]

Hello Dusty, fitting the new style motor entails cutting a 5″ square hole in the back of the motor box and making a cover for the new motor as the fan is no the end. I have yet to cut the splash back, that’s this afternoons task. But it has been quite straight forward.The new motor seems to be better in construction than the origional one.
Regards Mark P

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

Posted by Dusty on 08/02/2017 11:50:11:

Am I right in thinking that if I go from a 1hp single phase DC motor to a 3ph I can reduce to a 3/4hp motor?

Dusty,

Re the pm I sent,

I think the latest WM250 has a 1.1kw motor but that is a dc motor, I would have thought that a 3 phase motor of 1 hp would be adequate and is more efficient…that being the case, a 1hp motor can be sized in a 71 frame….which should fit in place without too much knuckle skinning and shedding of blood….

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Both the AC and DC versions of the 250 currently have 1100w motors

Edited By JasonB on 09/02/2017 12:33:49

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

TEC do a 1.1kw motor but it is in a 80 size frame…..if it wont fit without major surgery, then there's some serious thinking to be done….

1100 watts is a lot of power for a small lathe don't you think? Chester's DB10 is the same size but has a 1hp motor…just for comparison and Toolco's offering their 1022 has a 750w motor, as does SPG's SP2124 lathe….

So either the competition's lathes are underpowered or else Warco are overpowering theirs? Who knows….

Edited By John Rudd on 09/02/2017 12:47:31

Edited By John Rudd on 09/02/2017 12:48:12

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Or does having a higher HP motor mean they will have more torque at the low end of the speed range than a smaller HP motor would running at the same speed.

I see the AC version of my 280 now comes with 1.5kw motor.

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

Or does having a higher HP motor mean they will have more torque at the low end of the speed range than a smaller HP motor would running at the same speed.

Yes – fitting an "oversize" motor to get decent bottom end performace without a gearbox is not unusual. IIRC my Denford Triac direct drive spindle motor is around 1.5Kw for that reason.

Nigel B

[Richard MarksParticipant @richardmarks80868]

Dusty

Have you asked warco whether one off the milling machine motors is compatible.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Latest from Warco's website today… new WM 250V…

New! Now fitted with powerful 1.1kw (1100w) reversible motor

• New! Low 30 rpm speed at the low range, ideally suited to thread cutting

• New! Dependable Delta inverter drive with AC induction motor

WM 16 mill…

Motor	750w
Power supply	240v / 1PH

WM18 Mill…

Motor	1100w (1.1kw)
Power supply	240v

George.
​

[DustyParticipant @dusty]

In their words we've got nothing like that, that's having seen photo's of my motor. They cannot remember the toothed belt drive even. I am firmly in the 3ph vfd camp now. With a bit of angle grinding and some welding I am pretty sure that I can get a 71 frame size motor in. Not quite a simple as replacing with a DC motor but an extra 3/4 hrs work. I will worry about the tacho once the motor is in. Having looked at the set up both the 5 core flat cable from the display and the 3 core from the sensor go to the filter, it will be a case of sorting out what bits I need and getting rid of the rest (I hope)

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

George, the latest 250 machines (both DC and AC versions) all have the "bump" for the longer motor and have done for some time, Dusty's is the old one without a bump.

[DustyParticipant @dusty]

John Rudd, PM sent.

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