Warco WM180

[Steve MillwardParticipant @stevemillward84705]

Hi just bought warco WM180 2nd hand

when I turn machine on chuck revolves slowly

tried to stop with speed control to no avail is this normal

or is it a fault that can be fixed

cheers Steve

[Steve MillwardParticipant @stevemillward84705]

Speed control

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Steve Millward on 21/07/2021 16:57:21:

Hi just bought warco WM180 2nd hand

when I turn machine on chuck revolves slowly

tried to stop with speed control to no avail is this normal

or is it a fault that can be fixed

cheers Steve

I hope it's normal because my WM280 does the same!

The pot sets speed, and doesn't go all the way down to stop. In action, the lathe is stopped with the switch, by opening the chuck guard, or by hitting the big red button (in an emergency).

Emergencies apart, best advice is to bring the lathe down to slowest speed with the pot before before powering on or off because it's less stressful for the electronics.

Dave

[Jim NicParticipant @jimnic]

What do you mean when you say "turn it on". Do you mean when you apply power to the machine from the mains supply, in which case there is a fault because as far as I am aware the machine is fitted with an NVR switch. Or do you mean after power is applied and you press the "Go" button on the NVR switch, it is normal for the machine to then start and run at its slowest speed. You stop it by pressing the "Stop" button on the NVR switch.  Using the Emergency Stop button is not normally necessary unless there is an emergency.

HTH

Jim

Edited By Jim Nic on 21/07/2021 17:12:04

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

On my WM250V I start it with the green button, and it runs up to whatever speed the dial pot's set at. If I turn the dial CCW to its stop, the lathe runs at about 150 rpm, so if I've understood you correctly, the condition you describe is normal. When I want to stop the spindle I press the red stop button, not the Emergency Stop.

I tend to do most turning between about 300 and 800 rpm and rarely run faster, and I've never turned the pot down to its stop before stopping or restarting the spindle.

I've been doing this several times a day, several days a week, for more than 6 years now and not had any sort of electrical trouble.

Edited By Mick B1 on 21/07/2021 19:34:26

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Same as Mick on my WM280VF except I've been doing it like that for 10yrs.

[Steve MillwardParticipant @stevemillward84705]

Thanks for all replies it’s appreciated

while I’m here has anyone made a crank handle for wm180

if so has anyone got a drawing they would like to share

cheers

[Peter BaverstockParticipant @peterbaverstock32334]

Look for "How to make a quick release spindle handle for the chinese mini lathe"by Steve Jordan on Youtube,very clever chap.This gave me the general idea of how to go about making one,adapt to suit your needs.

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Seems there are some variations with Warco machines. My WM250 stops when the speed control is turned fully ACW. I was informed to stop and start the lathe with the speed control at zero. The motor is brushless.

[Andy CarruthersParticipant @andycarruthers33275]

My WM180 chuck does not rotate when pot set fully ACW too. Recently replaced the start/stop swich which had become intermittent latching on with audible buzz

Seems to me those experiencing rotation when pot fully CCW may have a dirty pot

[PaulGParticipant @paulg46657]

Same problem started with my SX2 mill. Just needed a squirt of switch cleaner in the speed pot.

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Andy Carruthers on 22/07/2021 09:49:36:

My WM180 chuck does not rotate when pot set fully ACW too. Recently replaced the start/stop swich which had become intermittent latching on with audible buzz

Seems to me those experiencing rotation when pot fully CCW may have a dirty pot

Considering the consistency of behaviour from new and the general reliability in use, I don't believe that.

Unadvertised engineering changes seem to me a far more likely explanation.

Edited By Mick B1 on 22/07/2021 10:43:39

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Posted by Mick B1 on 22/07/2021 10:42:56:

Posted by Andy Carruthers on 22/07/2021 09:49:36:

Unadvertised engineering changes seem to me a far more likely explanation.

Yeah, just like advertising a minimum speed of 30 rpm, when I can barely get below 100 rpm.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Mine has been like it from new and so was the one I tested in Warco's warehouse which they plugged in for me. Like Mick mine is a brussed motor and the OP's second hand one is more than likely to be too. Brushless may be different, though the Brushless SX2.7 runs at 40rpm when start button pressed and digital speed control won't make it any lower than that.

Bo'sun, what speed range have you got it in as you will only get the minimum 30rpm in the low range.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Posted by Mick B1 on 21/07/2021 19:30:29:

On my WM250V I start it with the green button, and it runs up to whatever speed the dial pot's set at. If I turn the dial CCW to its stop, the lathe runs at about 150 rpm, so if I've understood you correctly, the condition you describe is normal. When I want to stop the spindle I press the red stop button, not the Emergency Stop.

I tend to do most turning between about 300 and 800 rpm and rarely run faster, and I've never turned the pot down to its stop before stopping or restarting the spindle.

I've been doing this several times a day, several days a week, for more than 6 years now and not had any sort of electrical trouble.

Edited By Mick B1 on 21/07/2021 19:34:26

My WM250V-F behaves in the same way. I use the red & green buttons to stop/start & the lowest rpm shown when the pot is fully ACW is 59 – 61 rpm. I can set the speed, then can stop/start without having to wind down the pot. I always turn the pot down fully when finished for the day, same with my WM16 mill, once set, as said, I can stop/start without any need to wind the pot down.

George.

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Posted by JasonB on 22/07/2021 11:16:04:

Bo'sun, what speed range have you got it in as you will only get the minimum 30rpm in the low range.

The drive belt is in low range. When questioning Warco about it, I was told it's unlikely to go down to 30 rpm. If that's the case, then why advertise it as such? It's not been a huge problem, but that's not the point. I can, with a bit of dexterity, nudge it down to just over 80 rpm, but it's not happy.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Key factor surely is these are electronically controlled motors. What the speed pot does depends on the motor type and how the board is set-up. Not much consistency in it when the technology is looked at closely.

Motor types that can be speed controlled are managed in different ways. Brushed motors are different from induction motors, single-phase motors are different from three-phase motors, and brushless are different again. Some types (like three-phase), get hot when run slowly, and the problem is much worse if the motor is cooled by an impeller. Brushless motors can safely be stopped as an active brake, and brushed motors are relatively tolerant of slow running. So on the basis the operator doesn't need to be a motor expert it's best for the electronic controller to stop him cooking a motor he doesn't understand.

Nothing to do with brand names, quality, advertising or country of origin, it's just that machines are what they are. And what machines are is usually a compromise. Good old Myfords run on single-phase motors that can't be speed controlled at all. Myford's solution is mechanical: belts, pulleys and back-gear, which means a clutch is highly desirable. It was the best compromise in 1947. More options today: a WM180 applies a different solution that I argue is generally more convenient than Myford's mechanical system, but not a complete alternative. For example when torque is vital.

Just a guess without seeing the circuit, but I suspect Bosun's lathe runs fast because a trimmer pot on his control board needs adjusting. It's purpose is to set the minimum sensible speed at the factory and the setting may have shifted in transit. Or it was done on a Friday afternoon!

Bosun probably demonstrates a logic error too. He assumes lathes are mis-advertised because his particular machine happens not to meet meet the spec. Given there are thousands of the breed about, it's more likely that Bosun's individual machine is wonky than a reputable UK seller is misleading everyone. Don't assume all Vauxhall Corsas are rubbish because mine got a puncture!

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 22/07/2021 13:55:58

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Posted by Steve Millward on 21/07/2021 22:35:32:

Thanks for all replies it’s appreciated

while I’m here has anyone made a crank handle for wm180

if so has anyone got a drawing they would like to share

cheers

Watch the youtube vids and see if a drawing is really necessary. The only dimension that matters is the spindle bore which is apparently 21mm – I made one for my Sieg SC3 which like many other mini lathes has a 20mm bore so I used a bit of 20mm o/d x 2mm steel tube for the main body – you will probably have to turn something to fit;.

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

my simple handle – 22mm OD cutdown to fit into bore – a 6mm threaded rod at one end thru the hole in the fixing of the wheel to the rod (so long ago can’t remember how but locktite probably involved ) and at other end a wedge drawn into the (crudely) split tube to jam it in the bore
Looking at it in more detail looks as though I drilled a 12mm hole in wheel then locktited a top hat sized to fit into tube – I added a bearing between the tightening nut and the wheel

Edited By Frances IoM on 22/07/2021 15:57:44

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

forgot to add photo

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 22/07/2021 13:52:35:

Bosun probably demonstrates a logic error too. He assumes lathes are mis-advertised because his particular machine happens not to meet meet the spec. Given there are thousands of the breed about, it's more likely that Bosun's individual machine is wonky than a reputable UK seller is misleading everyone. Don't assume all Vauxhall Corsas are rubbish because mine got a puncture!

Dave

Sorry Dave, but if it doesn't meet the specification advertised, then something is clearly amiss. Especially when told by the supplier that the machine is unlikely to meet the published specification anyway. I'm not entirely convinced that an "individual machine is wonky", when due to other problems, this is the third machine I've had from Warco, and they all exhibit the same issue. A dodgy batch maybe, who knows?

Plus, the Corsa and the puncture is not a good analogy. A puncture is out of the control of the manufacturer/supplier.

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by JasonB on 22/07/2021 11:16:04:

Mine has been like it from new and so was the one I tested in Warco's warehouse which they plugged in for me. Like Mick mine is a brussed motor …

I think mine has an AC induction motor, which AFAIK has to be brushless.

[Andy CarruthersParticipant @andycarruthers33275]

Mick – Belief or evidence?

There is another possibility – the KBIC controller (assuming yours has same) has a plug in resistor, the value of which should match the motor wattage IIRC, I don't know the impact of having wrong the value

Purely personal view – I would prefer my machinery to behave according to published specification which is zero rotation when pot fully ACW, anything else IMHO is a fault, and I would look to rectify

Others are free to have their own view – we don't have to agree, and I'm not after causing trouble

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Andy Carruthers on 22/07/2021 22:01:27:

Mick – Belief or evidence?

…

Purely personal view – I would prefer my machinery to behave according to published specification which is zero rotation when pot fully ACW, anything else IMHO is a fault, and I would look to rectify

Others are free to have their own view – we don't have to agree, and I'm not after causing trouble

Promotional leaflet at time of purchase said it has an AC induction motor, so if that ain't so, there's a false trade description offence. There's no statement I've seen from Warco that describes whether the machine will run or not with the pot on bottom stop. However the two speed ranges are shown next to the dial, and there ain't no zero nowhere, so IMO it's reasonable to expect it to run at the low end of the range when switched on at bottom stop.

I really can't imagine how it could be any clearer.

 

Edited By Mick B1 on 23/07/2021 10:56:29

[Andy CarruthersParticipant @andycarruthers33275]

I agree

Your machine clearly shows rotation speeds at fully ACW pot position

Mine does not, horses for courses

Thank you for posting, I have learnt something about your machine

[Author]

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