Warco WM 250V power feed stuck/crash

[BombardierParticipant @bombardier]

Gonna be taking a closer look when I finish work today, if it is the cross slide shear pin how best to go about fixing it ?

Thanks in advance

Edited By Bombardier on 22/06/2022 06:02:15

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

IIRC I think you have to pull the two socket cap screws securing the crossslide handwheel bearing housing – can't remember if you've to remove the handwheel itself. The shearpin connection's either inside the bearing housing or a bit further forward under the crossslide base casting. You might get at it by pulling the crossslide itself backwards to push the leadscrew towards you (?)

It's not there at all in the exploded diagram in my manual, but it certainly is in reality. Obviously the whole distribution system out to Warco isn't being fully kept up to date with engineering changes.

It's just a bit of 1/8" or ~3mm diameter brass. When replacing, some people groove it where it's supposed to break, to weaken it. I bend them a little in the hope of preventing a broken piece falling out and jamming something else, as happened to my 250V a few years back.

Ain't nuffin' like finding and fixing a critical problem to create that human/machine bonding… 

Edited By Mick B1 on 22/06/2022 10:31:51

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Bombardier on 22/06/2022 05:40:01:

… if it is the cross slide shear pin how best to go about fixing it ?

…

Unfortunately the WM250V's saddle and cross-slide are a different design to my WM280: I'll leave the details to someone who knows what they're talking about.

A few general comments may help, including how not to do it again. The Manuals that come with these machines are very basic; if you can find the same machine being sold in the USA, say by Grizzly who put them online, their Manuals are usually much better. But even they don't tell beginners how to drive a lathe: it's expected they'll carefully teach themselves, go on a course, read books, and research the Internet. Doing the latter, and especially watching Youtube, set brain to maximum suspicion because a high-percentage of videos include bad-practice. Think before copying!

Learning to use a lathe, I recommend not using the power assist functions until thoroughly familiar with the manual controls. Lathe basics are deceptively simple; bear in mind there was a reason professional turners took years to train!

The first priority is not crashing. Before taking a cut pass the tool over the job with the motor stopped to confirm all is clear and that the travel is within the range of the screws. Avoid power functions at first because crashes are likely to be serious – they carry on until something breaks: a shear pin if we're lucky. Manual cuts are less forceful and usually stop soon after the operator detects a problem.

The controls to be wary of are circled in red.

Good practice when turning manually is to put the gearbox into neutral (Knob extreme left in centre position.)

The two red circled controls on the right engage the automatic functions, threading and traverse. It's important to operate these correctly, and not by accident. For example, when facing don't absently mindedly put the lever into sideways mode. If you do, the tool and/or tool-post will power into the work and something will break. And putting the lathe into facing mode whilst doing ordinary turning is almost as bad. With luck a shear-pin will break before serious damage is done, or a clutch will pop open, but this isn't guaranteed. It's possible to damage the rack, strip teeth from gears, bend shafts, crack-castings, mangle worms and nuts, and twist the motor on its mountings. Also to leave debris in the works that jambs it, perhaps much later.

So diagnosing the fault is best tackled a step at a time. Chances are crash damage is limited and easily fixed. Might well be an easy to fix shear-pin, but don't assume anything and start randomly 'fixing' things in hope the problem(s) will go away. I suggest, without taking anything apart, note all the malfunctions. first. They collectively point at whatever is wrong.

Turning the chuck by hand with the gearbox in gear, and the traverse and half-nut controls disengaged (if they can be!):

• Is everything jambed solid? If so, and can't be released by rocking the chuck gently to and fro, ask for advice on dismantling the saddle assembly
• If the chuck turns, is the lead-screw also turning? (pull the spring swarf cover back enough to see the leadscrew inside) If not its shear-pin is broken – likely location ringed in Blue, hidden under the spring swarf guard. Shear-pins (about 3mm diameter) are usually flush with a shaft coupler, and the end may not be obvious. Turn the chuck until a disc appears, with another matching it on the other side. Once found, the broken pin might be loose, more likely it will have to be tapped out with a punch (sawn off nail if nothing better to hand). May be extra tight in the hole due to the crash: I've broken mine twice, first time so difficult to remove to avoid more damage I had to take the lead-screw off and hold in a vice, second time the pin nudged out with no bother. We are in the lap of the gods! There may be a second shear-pin inside the saddle: I don't know where it is, but they can be found by looking for the point at which one shaft or a gear fails to turn another when the chuck is rotated.

Take it steady, and don't be afraid to ask. Photos of the control positions and signs of damage are very helpful if you can post them please.

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 22/06/2022 11:40:39

[BombardierParticipant @bombardier]

Thats great advice fellas and I will be adhering to it for sure, when I find the issue I will post pics as I go, wish me luck

[BombardierParticipant @bombardier]

ok on initial examination with the gearbox in gear, and the traverse and half-nut controls disengaged the lead screw turns.

The cross slide is jammed solid

[BombardierParticipant @bombardier]

Just completed another test

With the gear box in gear and the power feed engaged running longitudinal the carriage moves fine. I am beginning to believe that a shear pin must be inside the carriage or something has gone drastically wrong inside the carriage locking it up in the opposite direction.

[BombardierParticipant @bombardier]

First of all you guys are awesome and thanks for all your advice, it really gave me piece of mind.

So an update.

I decided to loosen the two cap head screws either side of the cross feed hand wheel and to my amazement the entire thing freed up and now works as it should. I remember when the machine stopped that I turned off the power toot sweet (remembering my previous issue) and it obviously prevented any lasting damage.

I have tried the power feed again and all appears to be working fine in that direction.

Phew lucky lucky lucky

these are the screws i loosened

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Well, that's pretty good news, Bombardier! That diecasting is what I was calling the 'crossslide handwheel bearing housing', and pulling the 2 caphead screws was what I was suggesting to start accessing the cross leadscrew shearpin.

From the position of the crossslide in the photo, you're nowhere near the furthest extent of travel – closer to the rearward limit defined by front face of the arc with the indicator line on it. Was that where it was when it jammed?

But it still doesn't look like the cause has come to light. I take it you've retightened the capscrews and it all still works? I guess we've all had it happen from time to time that we fix things without ever really finding out what we did that sorted it – I certainly have…

[BombardierParticipant @bombardier]

Posted by Mick B1 on 22/06/2022 15:27:48:

Well, that's pretty good news, Bombardier! That diecasting is what I was calling the 'crossslide handwheel bearing housing', and pulling the 2 caphead screws was what I was suggesting to start accessing the cross leadscrew shearpin.

From the position of the crossslide in the photo, you're nowhere near the furthest extent of travel – closer to the rearward limit defined by front face of the arc with the indicator line on it. Was that where it was when it jammed?

But it still doesn't look like the cause has come to light. I take it you've retightened the capscrews and it all still works? I guess we've all had it happen from time to time that we fix things without ever really finding out what we did that sorted it – I certainly have…

Yep still no idea but thankful it wasnt too serious, thanks for you help, it was your comment that made me try that approach and thankfully it did the trick all the other suggestions were just as helpful and helped me diagonose the issue. thanks again chaps and again awesome

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Bombardier on 22/06/2022 13:11:09:

…

I decided to loosen the two cap head screws either side of the cross feed hand wheel and to my amazement the entire thing freed up and now works as it should

…

Well done you! You are now the forum's leading expert on unjamming WM250V cross-slides!

I should have mentioned the loosening trick. Any internal parts wedged by the bump often unstick when loosening gives them just a little room to move. Waggling the chuck to and fro can have the same effect, moving parts just enough to break the wedge. A more serious smash might require more serious brutality, but best I think to reserve draconian actions until certain they're needed.

Two Bombardier tactics I heartily approve of:

• Walking away in the immediate aftermath and sleeping on it. Much safer than an instant adrenaline fuelled assault. We're all tempted by big hammers!
• The glass of whisky

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 22/06/2022 15:46:02

[BombardierParticipant @bombardier]

• Walking away in the immediate aftermath and sleeping on it. Much safer than an instant adrenaline fuelled assault. We're all tempted by big hammers!
• The glass of whisky

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 22/06/2022 15:46:02

Yes both worked well in this case

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Glad that you got it fixed without major problems.

No doubt, your experience will be of benefit to someone else!.

Howard

[bnplanesParticipant @bnplanes]

I just got a new warco wm250V and it seemed to be working fine except for a stiff carriage, in a discussion in a group it turns out I have the same problem as you with the bent shaft with the cog on the end, warco are ignoring me now as if I’m guilty of doing the damage, I think after reading your post it seems this lathe has major faults with it.

[bnplanes]

On bnplanes Said:

I just got a new warco wm250V and it seemed to be working fine except for a stiff carriage, in a discussion in a group it turns out I have the same problem as you with the bent shaft with the cog on the end, warco are ignoring me now as if I’m guilty of doing the damage, I think after reading your post it seems this lathe has major faults with it.

If you run the carriage up and down the bed with the handwheel, if you’ve got that issue I think it’ll stiffen up about every third turn, at the high spot where the carriage drive pinion meshes hard with the bed rack. There a picture in an earlier post I put up in this thread showing how you can bend the shaft straight again with a crowbar at that point.

But if it’s an unused machine, you shouldn’t have to do that. In my case I put my hand up to having caused it! >:-o

[bnplanesParticipant @bnplanes]

Yes I saw your post and it was very helpful but I’m too scared to use a crow bar on it and like you said it is a new lathe I got on the 24th October this year, contacted warco and they wont cover it stating “If there has been damage caused by an incident or transportation, then this would not be covered under the warranty.” in other words they think I did the damage but also because I asked them to uncrate it but leave it bolted to the pallet so it wouldn’t roll about in my van, they are now ignoring me so I think I will have to take it up with my bank.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Normally they deliver so did you pick it up from their warehouse in your van?
Have you confirmed the stiffening periodically all along the bed corresponding to the rotation of the gear?
If it is stiff all along then it may just be the adjustment of the plate at the back of the carriage that stops it lifting, or the rack position as the gear/rack interaction has a side function of stopping the front of the carriage lifting.

[bnplanesParticipant @bnplanes]

I picked it up from their warehouse as normally it comes in a sealed crate which weighs a lot more than the lathe with the tool box, back plate and 4 jaw chuck, it just makes it easier to move. I can see the shaft is bent and every 3 turns of the carriage wheel it gets tighter. its 150 part number 6 that is bent.

[bnplanesParticipant @bnplanes]

Why was my main post about my new Warco wm250v lathe being faulty deleted?

[bnplanes]

On bnplanes Said:

Why was my main post about my new Warco wm250v lathe being faulty deleted?

It would appear that two discussions might have been somehow merged.

… I am as surprised as you, and would welcome clarification.

MichaelG.

[Michael Gilligan]

On Michael Gilligan Said:

On bnplanes Said:

Why was my main post about my new Warco wm250v lathe being faulty deleted?

It would appear that two discussions might have been somehow merged.

… I am as surprised as you, and would welcome clarification.

MichaelG.

No got a message from admin telling me they are deleting it and I should sort it privately but warco just doesn’t want to know. I will never buy from them again and I have spent thousands with them. so much for warranty.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks for clarifying that …

Strangely, I have received no message from admin regarding my posts in your discussion.

I regret to say: That could well prove to be my final ‘tipping-point’

… I am seriously considering deleting my account.

MichaelG.

[bnplanes]

On bnplanes Said:

On Michael Gilligan Said:

On bnplanes Said:

Why was my main post about my new Warco wm250v lathe being faulty deleted?

It would appear that two discussions might have been somehow merged.

… I am as surprised as you, and would welcome clarification.

MichaelG.

No got a message from admin telling me they are deleting it and I should sort it privately but warco just doesn’t want to know. I will never buy from them again and I have spent thousands with them. so much for warranty.

Well, I was pretty happy with my Warco WM250V, and have recommended it on here a few times where it looked like it might have features punters wanted. But I’m now wondering, in the light of these two threads and the management changes in the last few years, whether the company’s still what it was.

[Mick B1]

On Mick B1 Said:

On bnplanes Said:

On Michael Gilligan Said:

On bnplanes Said:

Why was my main post about my new Warco wm250v lathe being faulty deleted?

It would appear that two discussions might have been somehow merged.

… I am as surprised as you, and would welcome clarification.

MichaelG.

No got a message from admin telling me they are deleting it and I should sort it privately but warco just doesn’t want to know. I will never buy from them again and I have spent thousands with them. so much for warranty.

Well, I was pretty happy with my Warco WM250V, and have recommended it on here a few times where it looked like it might have features punters wanted. But I’m now wondering, in the light of these two threads and the management changes in the last few years, whether the company’s still what it was.

I was only just thinking the same this morning about how this company has changed since 2021. They never even commented on my post that got deleted, that says a lot but instead, the post got deleted.

[Anonymous]

Yeah … I spent 15 min looking for it too this morning and figured it was removed to placate an advertiser. A little of that went on at the old site too though not perhaps as blatantly …. mostly individual posts or thread locking.

I was half expecting it or, better, that the advertiser would chime in. I don’t think anyone ever claimed this is Hyde Park Corner.

[bnplanesParticipant @bnplanes]

 

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