WARCO WM-250 lathe family and WM16 mill – 001

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

Jason – Yes I have to agree with you, it does seem that this sort of cut is to heavy for such a small machine. Blunt cutter? The newish cutter has only machined a couple of bits of ally and is still like a razor.

Andrew, The cutter did not get hot as I was using oil flood coolant. If it HAD I would have had smoke – there was no smoke.

I shall go easier on the little fellow in future. Thanks both for your helpful comments.

Rik

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I know me and Andrew have had this conversation before, what may be OK in theory just does not seem to equate to what these small mills can do, I'm basing that on my slightly larger X3 which I certainly would not try to take off anywhere near as big a cut, I know it would complain. Maybe keep the 13mm width, come down 2mm at a time but feed faster say 60sec to cover the one pass you will get the work done in 6mins not 12 and far less load on the machine.

Also what gear did you use, for heavy cuts its better to use the low range that way you will get a faster running motor and be nearer the 1HP rating rather than 1/5th of that if using high range and turning down the wick to run at 450rpm.

J

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

Jason – Thanks for reminding me that there is a HIGH/LOW gear knob on the machine – I'd forgotten, put it down to age. And yes, it WAS set on HIGH.

I'll give the mill another chance tomorrow in LOW gear and with your recommended feed – – – – – slowly, slowly I'm getting there!

Rik

[DoddyParticipant @doddy]

here's the link to my mod on my WM14 mill ~ Motor Cooling Fan and Temperature Gauge

[Ron ValeParticipant @ronvale24328]

Visited Warco on Sat. Bit disappointed to se no 'special offers' on the mills. £50.00 off woud have been aclincher on the day

However seriously looking at the WM16 and also fiting DRO to it

Couple of Questions

1) Who has got one, and any probs to look for

2) who has fitted DRO to it

Any probs, mods needed

3) which DRO should i go for, i hear ARC Euro are pretty good

Thanks in advance

[Mark P.Participant @markp]

Hi Ron, I have fitted the Arc Euro DRO's to my WM16 X and Y axis fairly straight forward fit.

Mark P.

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

Hello Ron

Don't know whether you have read all the posts on this thread re: WM16 but I would say that they cover a fair range of things to look out for especially when installing DRO's. You are going to be drilling machine castings to get your scales fitted – just hope yours are softer than mine were!

Rik

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Hi Ron

Look in my album; I have fitted X & Y axis DRO's to my WM 16 without too much bother, having fitted the X axis to the front I have removed the ability to have the table stops useable, but this can be remedied by extending the fastenings further out if need be, so far it's no big loss. Some have fitted the X DRO to the rear of the table.. personal choice.

George.

[Ron ValeParticipant @ronvale24328]

Mechman

Thanks for the heads up re fitting.

Would i be correct in saying that to fit the y DR you only need to remove the end ' end wheel' and associated mountings?

Ron

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Hi Ron

Yes, you only need to remove the hand wheel & end casting ( make sure you have the table fully extended as far as poss' ) to allow you easier access for drilling the mounting holes & to ensure that you level up & align the scale & reading head. Whilst I had mine adrift it gave me the chance to inspect the leadscrew thrust bearing & clean ,relube' before reassembly, also it gave me the opportunity to scrape off paint that had over sprayed on the joint prior to factory assembly as I had noticed that there was a slight drip from the joint when I was using coolant at one stage so I scraped the joint clean, fitted a brown paper gasket ( lightly greased ).. in fact I did both ends whilst in the process.. sorted.

George

[Ron ValeParticipant @ronvale24328]

George,

As they say a picture is worth a thousand words.Just what i needed

I am going to get a 200mm DRO for the Y axis and a 600mm for the X

Do you think that they will be adequate.? Was considering a 500mm for the X but as the travel is 485mm thought it might be a bit 'tight'

Ron

[john kennedy 1Participant @johnkennedy1]

Got my new inverter and 3 phase motor fitted in the wm250. The motor is much bigger than the dc one it was replacing.

Didn't fancy hanging this lump off the back of the headstock. A bit of work with the angle grinder allowed me to fit it in a swinging cradle underneath. (you'll notice i forgot to thread the gland nut on one of the cables )

Its all running ok now but was a bit of a game (for me) working out how to set it up using the lathes switch and speed pot. Must say I'm quite proud of myself.

The slowest pulley ratio I could get (not having a working lathe to make some) is 540 rpm. The picture shows it running at 20 hz, which in theory is 108 rpm.

The next picture shows it turning 100mm dia steel with 1mm deep cut at 20hz. and the motor is as cool as a cucumber… I've got an electric fan for it which I will wire up on a seperate switch.

Got to say this is so much better with loads of torque for doing the odd large dia job. Was thinking of later making an intermediate twin pulley to halve the 50 hz speed to 270 rpm

If your dc motor is struggling,change over,you wont regret it…..

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi John,
I notice the headstock end of your lathe looks very like my Chester DB10G. Does the spindle have a 45 tooth gear driving a 60 tooth gear on the first idler spindle? The reason I ask is that if it does then the the way I fitted a tumbler reverse to my lathe would be applicable to that model.

Les.

[john kennedy 1Participant @johnkennedy1]

Thanks Les but this version doesn't have a tumbler as such. On the front of the lathe you will see 2 knobs,one is to reverse the leadscrew and the other can be switched to 3 positions to give 3 speeds with the given geartrain . John

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi John,
My lathe did not come with a tumbler reverse so I made one for it. As your lathe looks the same I wondered if the way I fitted a tumbler reverse would be applicable to the model you have which is why I asked about the first step of the gearing. If I find it is applicable to more lathes than the Chester DB10G then I might submit the design to the new Hints and tips page that Neil is planning in MEW. As one of the knobs on your lathe provides the reverse function it is not applicable.

Les.

Edited By Les Jones 1 on 16/03/2014 18:50:49

[john kennedy 1Participant @johnkennedy1]

That would be a nice project to publish. I bet there's loads out there struggling without it.John

[Ed DuffnerParticipant @edduffner79357]

Hi Everyone,

A question for WM-16 or similar owners if I may. Have you tried fly-cutting mild steel (EN3B) and how did you get on?

I've had a go with a standard type fly cutter (2MT) with both HSS and brazed carbide LH cutting tool and I just seem to blunt the bits and the material starts to burnish. I believe I've set the tool geometry correctly on the HSS bit and have tried speeds ranging from about 400RPM to 800RPM or so. Depth of cut was never greater than 0.2mm and slow, steady hand feeding as I don't have an auto-feed yet. Everything that needed to be locked down was done so.

Thanks,
Ed.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I have a similar sized X3 and get a reasonable finish from the flycutter. Nothing special just a cheapie set of 3 with 1/2" shanks, 1/4" HSS but run at what revs seem right. Not the crispest of photos but thats 1" x 1/2" mild steel cut down to 7/16". Hand fed with a dab of soluable oil applied with a brush.

Edited By JasonB on 14/04/2014 17:31:47

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

Ed – I fly cut regularly on one of these machines and get nice finishes mostly using HSS. You do have to practise with getting the tool ground correctly though. When you have it right the the tool bit hisses as it cuts and leaves a lovely finish. It's hard to give any further advice without seeing how you have ground your bit which of course, is not possible unless you live near me.

Rik

[Ed DuffnerParticipant @edduffner79357]

Ok, thank you for the replies chaps. I'll have another go after I finish my cuppa.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

400-800 rpm seems very high for a fly cutter, unless it is a very small radius.

In theory the 108rpm for a 100mm blank in the picture above can be turned on its head – 108 rpm for a fly cutter with radius 100/2=50mm.

I run a ~ 35mm radius fly cutter at about 120rpm.

Neil

[Ed DuffnerParticipant @edduffner79357]

I had another go and it seems to have improved. I find it a bit difficult grinding an even radius on HSS but think I have it now. I also just looked at my copy of Peter Wright's Model Engineering Foundation Course (comparing his photo of a cutting tool) and I have not included enough clearance angle for the edge that rubs against the cut face, so I was basically cutting a slight chamfer and the bit was trying ride up over the cut originally.

Also in the book, it has a table for speeds but the printer has pushed text out of line and it's a bit unclear as to what the speed for BMS is. I just tried 250RPM but that felt way too slow. Then found 525RPM to be ok and I also reduced the amount of tool bit protruding from the cutter.

Here are some photos. This as a piece of mild steel about 5/8" x ~4.5"

Edited By Ed Duffner on 14/04/2014 21:17:52

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Hi Ed,

In Peter Wright's table BMS should be one of the first 'group' with copper, gunmetal etc.

Fly cutting is REALLY slow. I'm talking paint drying slow. I'm guessing from the marks that your cutter has a diameter of about 2". I'm amazed you haven't simply burnt the end of the cutter off.

If you have the patience ry running at about 100 rpm and turn the handwheel really slow so it advances a few thou between cuts. You should then start getting the silky 'flycut' finish you want.

If it feels too slow, you're feeding too fast.

Of course, YMMV, but I'd be interested what speeds other use with what size of flycutter.

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Hi John,

Ouch! Wouldn't do that on an X2!

I'd agree that the tool has to be right, a knife tool with a small tip radius will work if you're just taking off a light skim, but you won't get the surface finish.

My workshop is in the middle of a major reorganisation, but I'll see if I can get a shot to the results I get. These days I usually use a 11.5mm slot drill with the corners ground off for facing. It leaves a 'swirled finish' but the result is smooth to the touch. I'm not sure I've used a flycutter since doing all the rigidity improvements to my mill.

Neil

[Mark P.Participant @markp]

Whilst on the subject of milling, has anyone converted their WM16 to inverter drive? The reason being I am contemplating doing this to mine ( I find that my motor eats brushes). Also is it the spindle gears which are plastic and will the ones Arceurotrade sell fit? When I do carry out this conversion I would like to retain the Hi Lo gears to increase the usable speed range.

Regards Mark P.

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