WARCO WM-250 lathe family and WM16 mill – 001

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Rik, Grizzly G0704 comes with a R8 spindle, and Weiss lists one of its WMD30V milling machines with either MT3 or R8 spindle. You could e-mail them and ask if it is possible to get a R8 spindle (and possibly bearings).

Thor

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

Thanks Thor for your interesting info. — Rik

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

As mentioned; the WM 16 comes with a 10mm & a 3/8" draw bar, also the chuck supplied is a 3/8" fitting, mine has. I personally wouldn't like to fit tang extension sleeves as the longer you have the drill/cutter protruding out the less rigidity you have & the more chance of something nasty happening. I use a ER 25 collet set (M10 tapped) for all my cutters & keep the quill extension as short as possible, with the head lowered / raised just far enough to allow me a clear view to see what's happening.

The ejection / retaining bush is just that, although I have found that to release the collet takes some leverage on the 'SMALL' square on the end of the draw bar which will eventualy 'round off ' & find that I have had to give a gentle persuasive tap with a plastic / brass hammer once I have backed up the draw bar to the underside of the bush (shows me that the matching tapers have a good grip..on mine !). I'm thinking.. make new draw bars with a hex' head (hex' bar machined with appropriate thread) to allow a socket or ring key fitting.. or weld a hex' nut on & modify the bushing to suit, I'm sure there are many other alternatives which you guys will come up with.

Cheers

George

[Mark P.Participant @markp]

For a spanner to fit the drawbar square I found that a mini brake adjuster spanner has the correct size square to fit snugly,have been using one for a few years now. When I say mini I mean the car,the original mini. I http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0&_nkw=mini+brake+adjuste

Mark P.

[Gone AwayParticipant @goneaway]

I find a 9mm 12-point socket (on a ratchet wrench) fits my drawbar square nicely.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Sid / Mark

Thanks for the update, will check it out tomorrow.

G.

Edited By mechman48 on 20/05/2013 22:09:58

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

Ordered the recommended HV4 rotary table at Harrogate to go with the new WM16 mill. It was only when I arrived home that checking the WARCO website I found that the table is a diminutive 75mm diameter. I checked with WARCO and they confirmed that anything bigger would be TO big. I cancelled that item on my order.

OK, I suppose they know their business but I would have thought that a 100mm dia. (at the least) rotary table would sit on the mill nicely. Maybe it's because of height restrictions on the Z axis – I don't know – do you?

Rik

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Are you sure you are looking at the right rotary table

Warco's paper catalogue gives the HV4 as a 110mm table eg nominal 4", HV6 as 150mm nominal 6" and so on. I can't even see a size for the HV4 on their site

 

Edited By JasonB on 22/05/2013 16:55:44

[Gone AwayParticipant @goneaway]

I started with a 4" RT and found even that a bit "dinky" actually. The small size wouldn't allow me to do a number of things I wanted to do. It might be OK for small models though.

I'm currently running with a 6" which is a bit big in some situations but quite usable – and more versatile – in others. Overall, I much prefer the 6". I think there's a case for someone making a 5" for these machines.

I wouldn't waste money on a 3" unless I was only into really small stuff.

[Mark P.Participant @markp]

I made an adapter so I could the faceplate from my WM 250 on my 4" rotary table.huge area when needed.

Mark P.

[GeirParticipant @geir]

What would be a good rotary table size for the HBM BF25, 6'' or 4''? The machine has a 700x180mm table, but is otherwise similar to the Warco WM18.

Can anyone recommend a good rotary table – preferably on the "good value for money" side – not necessarily the cheapest.

[Gone AwayParticipant @goneaway]

Posted by Mark P. on 22/05/2013 18:32:09:

I made an adapter so I could the faceplate from my WM 250 on my 4" rotary table.huge area when needed.

That's not a bad idea. It would also make it easy to transfer a part from the lathe to the mill too. And if the adaptor also centres the faceplate on the RT, it would maintain the turning centre.

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Geir, I think a 6" RT should fit well on a HBM BF25, I have the same milling machine and a 4" RT that I think is on the small side. So I am trying to make a slightly larger rotary table – 120mm(almost 5&quot – after a description found here.

Thor

[Gone AwayParticipant @goneaway]

Geir, given my post above and the fact that your table is a bit bigger than mine, I obviously think that a 6" would be better than a 4".

It's not just about table dia though. Table height plays a part and you should check the heights of various tables to make sure you can accomodate them in your setup. You lose some height with a 6" …. probably OK but you should check with your longest tools in the spindle (drill chuck and large drill perhaps?). Use of a collet-holder/collets usually helps in this respect.

Edited By Sid Herbage on 23/05/2013 14:18:43

[Chris HeapyParticipant @chrisheapy71135]

Posted by Thor on 23/05/2013 05:49:53:

Geir, I think a 6" RT should fit well on a HBM BF25, I have the same milling machine and a 4" RT that I think is on the small side. So I am trying to make a slightly larger rotary table – 120mm(almost 5" – after a description found here.

Thor

I loved reading that description about making the RT on the Taig lathe, very inventive chap to overcome all those problems working at the limit of his machine's capacity. Good stuff

Chris

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Rik,

I have a 4" Rotab' I bought some time ago from Chronos(usual disclaimer) that hinges to vertical, I have just fitted a 80mm 4 jaw to it this weekend & although it does look 'dinky' I think it will suffice for my needs..at the mo'. I like the idea of using my face plate as an addition to it (thanks for the idea Mark P), anyhow I made an adaptor to fit as when I looked in the centre to identify the taper I found it had a 5/16" BSW thread ..? anyhow I ran a tap down the thread & all the way through to clear out any crap & ensured the thread ended up full size and  an adaptor made to suit, which can also be used to center up the table. I have include a pic of the working height left; from the top of the chuck to the bottom of cutter, 6", with the head at max' elevation, so if I take half the length of the cutter again I will have 61/2" of working headroom, pics are available in my album but have included the main pics here:

Adaptor fitted,

Free headroom approx' 61/2" but will change with whatever is in chuck or if drill chuck is fitted but gives you some idea of set up & measurements.

Cheers

George

Edited By mechman48 on 28/05/2013 12:20:16

[Gone AwayParticipant @goneaway]

George, do you find that table will actually stay in any raised position during a reasonable-sized cut?

I had one of those before my current 6" and no matter how hard I tightened the clamp screw the angle would always creep during a cut. I even tried viagra to make it stay up.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Hi Sid

Haven't actually tried it in the vertical.. nor the horizontal yet.. not had the need so far as been piddling about with making stuff to make stuff or replace stuff, if you get my drift e.g had to replace the supplied clamping bolts for my mill vice as they were the usual chinese crap as far as bolts go, inferior metal & too short, i.e. today when I finished making a vice stop & was aligning the vice along the 'X' axis, as I tightened the clamping bolts the threads stripped, no excessive leverage used just a normal open ended spanner so ended up having to make 2 new bolts.. out of proper steel! I reckon all of the far eastern machinery is supplied with the basest of clamps / bolts as far as steel quality/composition goes.

G

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

Looking forward to the delivery of my new WARCO WM16 milling machine and CY90 bandsaw tomorrow afternoon. My newly ordered WM250 VF lathe however does not look as though it has departed the far flung asiatic shores yet but I am hoping that until it does arrrive I will be able to use the mill to fashion a diamond tangential type turning tool holder ready for its arrival. —–Rik (somewhat impatient)!

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Rik,

When you get your mill some would say strip it all down & do a clean up job on it before use as quite a lot seem to have done (some just for the hell of it ?), I personally did not, apart from cleaning off the transport / factory grease & applying oil to the leadscrews & dovetails as looking at mine.. with a torch under the table, & in the column I could not see anything untoward so left well alone..my motto .'.if it aint broke don't fix it ' .

All I did was to ensure all the leadscrews operated ok without any feeling of binding or slackness, locking screws were in good nick & not broken..these are made of some sort of Magalloy or pot metal & can be easily stripped, I have replaced 2 of mine (under warranty) even tho' no undue pressure has been applied (am looking at making alternatives).

Make sure your gib stribs are snugged up as I found on mine as there was a bit of slop on the table, check your backlash too as most of these eastern machines will almost certainly have some, can be adjusted but can be awkward to do. I fitted DRO's on my machine X & Y axes so this eliminates the need to check the dials & wondering which side of the line you were set at..( or on the line.. photos in my album) making all a much more accurate measuring method.

Tramming your milling head before use is a must; I checked mine with a centering indicator followed by a DTI & found  0.000" right to left on X axis & '0' to .-0005" (minus half a thou&#39 front to back on Y axis so pretty good 'straight out of the box' but I wouldn't like to say this is the norm on all machines, check yours. I fitted a couple of head locking blocks once everything was locked up so there would no chance of the head tilting (Pics in album)..well virtually no chance..nothing is guaranteed 100%,  I've checked mine a couple of times & nothing has moved. Some say fit a 3 bolt locking system to the head..up to you! since mine has all the above I have not felt the need to..but that's just me, so all in all 'straight out of the box' has been pretty damn good for me..or I've been bloody lucky !!

You'll have received your machine by the time this post is read, & no doubt have 'made swarf' but even so 'enjoy'.

Cheers

George

Edited By mechman48 on 30/05/2013 22:45:12

Edited By mechman48 on 30/05/2013 22:53:45

[Gone AwayParticipant @goneaway]

Posted by mechman48 on 30/05/2013 22:40:51:

I fitted a couple of head locking blocks once everything was locked up so there would no chance of the head tilting

I've considered doing that to mine (several times actually). However, I have a power feed and the odd time I've pushed it a little too much and had the cutter stall. At this point, the power feed continues for a few seconds until I can summon up the wits to kill its power. Some real damage could be done ….. if it weren't for the fact that the head can untilmately tilt (notwithstanding its locknut).

[Robin GrahamParticipant @robingraham42208]

Belatedly returning to the question of fitting a drill chuck with a tang-type MT2 arbour to the WM16, I've had no trouble doing that with my WM14, which is a similar if smaller machine. You do have to bash it out though, which is worrisome. I've recently noticed that Arc Euro have a range of threaded chuck arbours which would allow mounting a chuck with a drawbar and using the 'self eject' mechanism. They also do screw-in tangs which would allow the same chuck/arbour assembly to be used in a drill press. Think that's the way I'll go. Usual discalimer.

Bob.

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

Thanks George for your valuable advice re: WM16 mill. Mine has been delivered and it is sitting on and bolted to its castored cabinet as I speak. However, I was a bit (no VERY) surprised that the machine was completely brain dead when power was switched on – big disappointment!

I noticed that the emergency power off button was rotating unnaturally freely so I removed the front of the control panel only to discover:

A: The button retaining collar had not been tightened.

and

B: Because the button was allowed to rotate a wire connected to it had pulled out – the machine was therefore knackered in the extreme.

This was most surprising as the supplied printed test record by inspector Dongfa Yan itemised the emergency button as inspected and passed.

Warco claim "Each machine is fully engineer tested before despatch". Would that be a WARCO engineer or a non WARCO engineer?

WARCO's workshop chaps were very helpful and got the wire back in the correct hole (over the phone you understand) but still no life – until one of the techs suggested that the chuck guard was in the wrong position – it was, and I was left feeling a pratt – I had no idea that it was linked to a switch.

Anyway, there she sits (now fully functional in my "tardis&quot and it looks vast. I am sure that it will be eminently capable of anything I chuck in its direction. I am so glad I went for this instead of the smaller WM14.

Rik

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Hi Rik, congratulations with your new WM 16. Sorry to hear about your troubles getting it to run. The micro switch in the chuck guard gave me trouble to, had to open it up and adjust it to work correctly.

Thor

[Mark P.Participant @markp]

I found that the guard on my WM16 interfered with the use of my vice and various other fixtures I use, so I took it off, I also deleted the micro switch,as there is only myself that uses it there is no problems.I did the same with the guard on mw WM250 I find that the guards cause more problems than they are worth just keep hands and any loose clothing clear of rotating parts.

Regards Mark P.

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