WARCO WM-250 lathe family and WM16 mill – 001

[Ross Lloyd 1Participant @rosslloyd1]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 05/06/2018 12:36:38:

Posted by Ross Lloyd 1 on 04/06/2018 19:31:59:

…

Should I go and splash out on a tub of white lithium?

Cheers

Ross

Been there, done that! Lithium Grease is best, ordinary grease is good enough.

Very common to find manuals recommending particular oils and greases. People pop up asking where they can get long obsolete grades or defunct brand names. Sometimes using the specified item matters but the gears in a hobby lathe are simple and robust. The thing to avoid is no grease or oil at all.

When I bought a new car I initially spent ages checking and cleaning it, and always bought recommended oils and official spares. I was terrified of having a bump. Now it only gets basic maintenance and I drive around covered in bird poo…

Haha thanks that made my day! You don't live in Aberdeen by any chance do you? Used to live there and it was seagull poop central. I thought about marketing disposable car covers and making a few bob!

I have got some lithium grease on the way, need to get a big container of machine oil too. Hopefully in a few years the lathe won't be covered in anything from the wrong end of a sparrow

[Dave Smith 14Participant @davesmith14]

Help!

Changed the workpiece in my WM16 mill this morning tried to start it. Went clunk and is now completely dead. The fuses in the back of the control box and the plug are OK and the stop button is not in the off position. The chip guard microswitch is ok. Warco suggest it is a dead control board. The board smells a bit but does not have any visible evidence of blown components. Before I commit to a new control, has anyone any suggestions on what else could be the problem. Had to happen on the last of 6 hornblocks!

Thanks in advance

Dave

[John Hall 7Participant @johnhall7]

This is a good question….if you haven’t got good elecrical knowledge….where do you go to get them faulted and fixed?

Edited By John Hall 7 on 26/06/2018 14:40:34

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

I find Warco's suggestion not appropriate without basis. But hey what do I know? I didnt supply the machine…

So, as this is a dc motor powered mill, I suggest the following:

With the mill unplugged from its mains supply. Check the motor brushes for condition, length and a free to move in their holders. If they look ok, proceed as below…

Ensure the mill is unplugged from the Mains while working on it….Make a note if you disconnect any wires, so you know where they need to go back!

Disconnect the motor wires, then with a 100 watt domestic lightbulb in a suitable holder, connect to where the motor was connected….Power up the mill, and the bulb should vary in brightness as the speed control is advanced…Does it do this?

Test the motor with a 12v batter, while it is disconnected from where it was connected to, in the above step. The motor should turn freely with no undue noise and sparking from the commutator.

Please report your findings, then we can advise accordingly…..

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

Dave – It happened to me. Have you been following WARCO's advice re: stopping/starting? The speed control should be backed of to zero before starting and again before stopping. (See page 9 in Ops Manual) Failure to follow this procedure can fry the board . A new board is V expensive. Around £120 last time I cooked mine.

BTW, be sure to fit a 3 amp fuse in the mains plug as this will blow first if you have a stack-up and save stripping the teeth in the gearbox.

Rik

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

PS Go with John Rudds advice. He is mustard on this stuff (Thanks again John)

Rik

[dcostaParticipant @dcosta]

Hi David,
please see ***HERE***

Regards
Dias Costa

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

If the board proves to be faulty, they can be repaired. Pm me if necessary.

[Dave Smith 14Participant @davesmith14]

Gents

Thanks for the advice. John I will do as you say and report back, it will not be until the end of the week due to other commitments. Rik 99% of the time I start it with the speed controller turned right down and it was right down when things went bottoms up this morning.

Regards

Dave

[Dave Smith 14Participant @davesmith14]

Check the motor brushes for condition, length and a free to move in their holders. If they look ok, proceed as below. Test the motor with a 12v batter, while it is disconnected from where it was connected to, in the above step. The motor should turn freely with no undue noise and sparking from the commutator:

Motor brushes ok

Motor runs fine 0 to 40 v.

Disconnect the motor wires, then with a 100 watt domestic lightbulb in a suitable holder, connect to where the motor was connected….Power up the mill, and the bulb should vary in brightness as the speed control is advanced…Does it do this?

No voltage at the motor connection. Forgot to mention the speed control LCD does not power up either.

So points to the control board at fault?

Dave

Edited By Dave Smith 14 on 27/06/2018 21:17:44

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

Posted by Dave Smith 14 on 27/06/2018 21:17:18:

 

No voltage at the motor connection. Forgot to mention the speed control LCD does not power up either.

So points to the control board at fault?

Dave

 

Not necessarily.

You will need to trace the wiring using an ohm meter to determine why the lack of mains voltage…..

Working from the mains plug, attach one meter lead to the Live pin, then systematically follow the wiring thru' to where it ends up at the L1/L2 connection on speed control board and the lcd display board, testing for continuity, do the same with the Neutral pin….should pin point where your issue lies…..either an open circuit switch ( the micro switch for the chuck guard ) or a fuse/loose or disconnected wire.

Edited By John Rudd on 28/06/2018 08:58:39

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

I cant edit my post any more, but a further thought….

With the mill plugged in, close the chuck guard over, now switch on, does the NVR switch hold in or do nothing?

Looking at the Grizzly manual, power comes in to the mill, via a fuse, then via the filter board, through to the chuck guard switch, via the nvr switch and then goes to the speed control board at terminals L1/L2

However, the tacho /filter board is fed first, suggesting there is either a broken wire/blown fuse…if the lcd display is not illuminated.

Carry out the suggested checks and let us know how you get on…..

Edited By John Rudd on 28/06/2018 09:17:35

[John Hall 7Participant @johnhall7]

Please could you tell me which Grizzley model..is the equivalent to the Warco 250vf…I’m interested in getting hold of a manual…

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

There is no direct replacement/equivalent….

There are 4 Grizzly models that are 'similar'…..Have a look here….

http://www.grizzly.com/search?q=(categoryid:460000)+AND+(distance_between_centers:%2222+in.%22)

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by John Hall 7 on 28/06/2018 09:49:04:

Please could you tell me which Grizzley model..is the equivalent to the Warco 250vf…I’m interested in getting hold of a manual…

Maybe this one?

**LINK**

[Dave Smith 14Participant @davesmith14]

HURRAH – Fixed.

John many thanks for your guidance. After taking all the electrical bits out of the box I found a wire and it spade terminal had parted company. The wire was on the 'filter' which is not on the Grizzly circuit diagram and could not be seen until I removed it. Anyway thanks again it made me do a thorough check and avoided wasting money.

Regards

Dave

Edited By Dave Smith 14 on 28/06/2018 13:52:57

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

Glad you got it sorted…..Good that you checked all the wiring thoroughly too, saves a lot of headscratching in the future..

I recommend you change the fuse in the plug if its a 13 A brown one…..far too high….

The control boards of this type have overload protection built in just in case you stall the motor, but takes time to react, same as a fuse takes time to blow……but the motors are not so forgiving….its quite easy to overheat the commutator resulting in either a blwn motor or control board or both….

Even for a 1kw rated motor, a 5A fuse is big enough and will save blowing the control board..

Edited By John Rudd on 28/06/2018 14:34:50

[John Hall 7Participant @johnhall7]

Thanks for the link Vic..👍

[Chris Jones 3Participant @chrisjones3]

Hello All WM16 owners,

Does anyone know the approximate weight of the head on the WM16 mill? This is so that I can get a couple of gas struts fitted to take some of the strain off my arm.

Thanks – Chris.

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

Chris

Sorry I cannot help with the weight as mine has never been of. Not sure I understand how gas struts are going to save your arms – where would you be thinking of fitting them?

Rik

[Chris Jones 3Participant @chrisjones3]

Hi Rik.

lots of people fit them to take some of the weight of the head. Fitted as standard to some models. Surprised you've never come across them before?

Regards – Chris.

[Mark P.Participant @markp]

I don’t suppose that anyone has a spare set of WM250 change wheels they would like to sell please.
Thanks Mark P.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

The chances are, if Warco cannot supply, that the gears from a similar machine will do the job.

Find out the spec, bore, Module (OD / (T +2), width, keyway etc. then look form potential sources.

Little Machine Shop certainly quote a complete set for Seig SC4, (and give dimensions), Arc Euro may well carry spares for their machines, as, no doubt would Chester and Axminster.

I believe that Seig supply machines to more than one UK importer, although I think that Warco may use Real Bull (CHECK!), in which case it is possible that some dimensions may differ.

Have no no knowledge of Amadeal or A M D, so no comment, but could be a possible source.

Howard

[Mark P.Participant @markp]

Hi Howard, these are for a project I am doing, the ones for my lathe fill the bill so I wanted a set from a defunct lathe. My thinking was that they would work out cheaper second hand.
Mark P..

[Cabinet EnforcerParticipant @cabinetenforcer]

Somehow this very useful thread has dropped off the radar, so I thought I would bump it with a little snippet of useful info.

I have been having terrible trouble with chatter on my wm280, and have chased the problem around quite a bit with nothing making much difference at all to a quite obvious problem. In the end it was as simple as the bolt holding the cross slide nut had come loose (doh!).

I did however learn a couple of things while messing about:

1. My Dickson QCTP was sleeved onto the original (M8 I think) toolpost stud, machining the topslide for a much larger (14mm) stud which fits properly has made a huge difference to the feel and usability of the QCTP, I highly recommend it.
2. The bearings were extremely tight on the spindle, explaining why adjustment never seemed to make any difference, despite being in slightly ropey condition the bearings were actually working fine as the timkens that went in to replace made zero difference.
3. Tailstock problems, when I bought the lathe (2nd hand) the tailstock was tight in spots, a stripdown and rebuild partly fixed it, and a bit of judicious bending seemed to get it to a tolerable state, I assumed the screw had a slight bend and forgot about it. Fast forward to my above bearing install and I inadvisedly used the tailstock to ease the bearing race in, the tight spots returned with a vengence, fearing the worst I stripped it down for a proper examination.

   The rear keep plate, which I quickly realised was transferring the full force on the spindle into the body, was only held in with very short (circa 5mm) cap head screws, and the threads holding one of them in were stripped (when using brute force and ignorance I do like to use plenty of the brute force). The tailstock body is drilled and tapped for much longer screws, so after fettling the interface I popped in some longer cap heads and the tailstock now works more smoothly than at any other time in my ownership.

The odd thing is that I have stripped the tailstock down at least twice, including to install needle roller thrust bearings, and completely failed to recognise that the teensy little bolts would be a problem .

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