Warco Super – Major Vario inaccuracy

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Have you adjusted the head gibs and were the measurements taken with the head locked or unlocked.

Is it still on the pallet or has it been hoisted onto a bench with a strap around the head?

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember32069]

[This posting has been removed]

[Robert AskewParticipant @robertaskew15193]

Tried adjusting jibs and locking head locks no different

The machine is on it’s supplied stand and I paid extra to have warco to fully install machine in my workshop

Have found problem not that it helps bed is not ground parallel to the dovetails underneath

I run the clock across width of table and clock went from +.004” to -.004”

So will demand a new machine

[Robert AskewParticipant @robertaskew15193]

Warco claim on there report .04mm or .0015 in proper measurements

[Anonymous]

When you say run the clock across the table are you moving the table with the Y-axis handwheel or swinging the clock on an arm in the spindle by 180 degrees? One of these methods measures spindle squareness, one doesn't.

Andrew

[Robert AskewParticipant @robertaskew15193]

moving clock across using handwheel

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

That does not measure how true the spindle is to the table but shows the tables slopes!

The start of his is how to swing a clock and test the tram

Edited By JasonB on 15/02/2019 19:46:31

[Robert AskewParticipant @robertaskew15193]

that’s what I saiid table slopes

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Robert Askew 1 on 15/02/2019 17:58:09:

Lower at back higher at front

.004” low at back .004 high at front

sorry but not exctable to me

Bob,

Before condemning the machine on the basis of measurements, try cutting metal with it. Note John Haine's comment that the machine may be intended to bend. It might not be as bad as you fear in practice.

You may have a more serious problem though! I see from your other posts that you've been a machinist for 40 years and use a Bridgeport VMC1000 at work. As such it may be difficult for you to cope with the gap between the machines you are familiar with and what a private individual can afford. Typically an industrial machine is 6 to 20 times more expensive than the hobby version. The Super Major is a decent hobby machine, but it's definitely not industrial quality.

It may be that Warco can provide a Major with better figures, but generally hobbyists make do within the limitations of their equipment. For what I get up to my Chinese machines are adequate, but I don't work at high speed, I back off when the machine shows signs of stress, and I change the way cuts are made to compensate for known shortcomings. I also keep a close eye on adjustments, things like gibs, backlash, and tram can wander. My work-rate is slow and it involves a lot of thinking around obstacles. Although it keeps me amused as a hobby, this way of working might well annoy the hell out of you, and it certainly won't do if you intend seriously using your mill productively or to make money.

The alternative to a new Far Eastern hobby machine would be a new Far Eastern industrial machine, or – perhaps more affordable – a second-hand ex-educational or industry mill. The main issue buying second-hand is finding a good one – condition is everything because spares and refurbishing are expensive, maybe beyond your worst nightmare. With time and luck it can be done though.

As it's important to be happy with tools, keep looking for what you want but be aware cost might force compromises unless you have deep pockets stuffed with cash. Much depends on what the machine is for, how you intend using it, and what you can live with!

Dave

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 15/02/2019 20:01:52

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Robert Askew 1 on 15/02/2019 15:48:08:

and checking spindle squareness to table

Not how I read it.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by JasonB on 15/02/2019 20:02:04:

Posted by Robert Askew 1 on 15/02/2019 15:48:08:

and checking spindle squareness to table

Not how I read it.

.

… If, as it appears, the surface of the table slopes: An otherwise perfectly aligned spindle would need to be tilted to match that angle to achieve 'squareness' [90°].

• Squareness to the motion of the slides is one test
• Squareness to the surface of the table is another

Clearly, in the case of a perfect machine both would be exactly 90°

Equally clearly; Robert's machine is not perfect, and could not be adjusted to be so without re-machining the table.

[ that's how I see it, anyway ]

MichaelG.

[Robert AskewParticipant @robertaskew15193]

I bought the mill for making parts for my motorcycles

and yes I have to except it’s not industrial quality but warco claim .0015” on there accuracy reports so I guess someone has not checked correctly

and I would like it to bore holes vertical

and the errors I have the deeper you bore or drill the worse the errors will get

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Michael,  without rotating the spindle you cannot get a true measure of the axis it rotates on to tell if it is square to anything. The results could have been obtained by mounting the DTI on any stationary part of the machine.

 

Agreed it's not an easy fix.

Edited By JasonB on 15/02/2019 20:28:44

[Robert AskewParticipant @robertaskew15193]

MichaelG.

has got what I am on about

[FMESParticipant @fmes]

Robert, are you holding your dial gauge in a collet or the supplied chuck?

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember32069]

[This posting has been removed]

[Robert AskewParticipant @robertaskew15193]

[Robert AskewParticipant @robertaskew15193]

Would send pics but they don’t want to up load

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

How to add photos here

[Robert AskewParticipant @robertaskew15193]

Does this work with an I pad

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Try a PC.

Tony

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Robert Askew 1 on 15/02/2019 20:56:58:

Does this work with an I pad

.

Yes [unless it's one of the very early ones]

But do be aware that you can't upload .png or .pdf files 

… strictly .jpg or .jpeg 

MichaelG.

.

Edit: The photos are in your album, now just select the little black 'camera' icon and follow your nose.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 15/02/2019 21:13:21

[Bob n AboutParticipant @bobnabout]

I have the same mill purchased beginning of last year. How are you measuring front to back, I ask as my DRO scale and power feed switch box limit travel to just under 8" If I rotate the head willy nilly and tighten it up any old how I can get bad readings. However if I clock the spindle as I am tightening the head and balance the loads on the fasteners I can achieve ± 0.0015" front to back, till I lean on the head or do some work on it, then those figures are irrelevant. I assembled and set the mill up here on my own, I needed to loosen the column bolts and shim under the rear of the column to get the mill spot on (strip of beer can did the job). I'm not machining exotic alloys so left it at that, otherwise I would add levelling epoxy to gap fill. My column moves the same as it did when the surfaces were mated, so for me it's not an issue. I might also add that all my measurements are taken off the base of large precision Vee blocks, so the key slots don't interrupt measurement.

Overall I am very happy with the mill, I can achieve the precision I need in alloy and plastics. I have done some steel and cast iron work using a 50mm face mill (conservatively) holding a tolerance within ±0.001" in 6" I have had some issues with the mill, but resolved them myself.

[Robert AskewParticipant @robertaskew15193]

this is my accuracy report 

Edited By Robert Askew 1 on 15/02/2019 21:24:08

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Item No. 3 is "interesting"

MichaelG.

[Author]

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