Warco Super – Major Vario inaccuracy

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by DerryUK on 23/07/2012 15:16:06:

Thanks for that Martin, too much reliance on my Firefox checker on my part. What on earth does SCAYT mean?

Hi DerryUK,

are you serious?

Spell Checking As You Type -SCAYT.

Regards

T

[Joseph RamonParticipant @josephramon28170]

SCAT

Spellun Crap All Times

Joey

[DerryUKParticipant @derryuk]

<However, what incentive do I have to make a manual for price sensitive machines with low margins when every man and his dog sells the same machines?>
There has to be a reason to buy from you Ketan rather than someone else. Perhaps one reason might be your reputation for selling machines with decent manuals.

People buy things for many reasons including but not only price.

<Good manuals cost good money and time. Once published, everyone around the world tries to knick it.>
But you are not in the buisiness of selling manuals so if they knick it there is no cost to you directly. Look at what is published on the web for gratis. A lot of rubbish agreed but here is some marvelous stuff out there. Look at the offers of help for free that readers give ME and MEW here for instance.

I suspect that it would be the same for you if you wanted help producing manuals. Perhaps you only need reviewers?

<What loyalty did they get in this time of recession?>
Myford were too expensive for me to buy new.

Grizzlys have a good reputation for manuals, if you sell the same machine why not do a deal with them and include their manual with your machine.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Hi DerryUK,

I respect your comments, but dont totally agree with you

The situation is not as simple and clear cut as you think.

Agreed, there are people who buy based on a suppliers reputation. In the present economic climate, there are far more people out there making a purchase decision on price. I dont disagree with that. That is just the way it is. It is a clear observation. Also, the buyers who are new to the hobby don’t necessarily seek advice before buying. Trust me, I know. So how would they know about a suppliers reputation? For example, many of them don’t know the difference from one mini-lathe to another. Also, with the amount of marketing BS out there, it is very easy to baffle them. I won’t go into detail because my views will be different from my competitors.

ARCs reputation speaks for itself – whichever way you cut it. Where we lack on manual, we make up in other ways. I just cannot justify investing in the cost to make a manual for a low cost product with limited sales in an already over competitive market. I say this with the greatest of respect.

Yes there is help on offer, but writing a manual is not as easy as you think. We try to help instead by writing on forums, and making preparation guides when possible. For us this method is more cost effective for low value products.

The Myford story is more complicated then I care to explain, especially from a commercial view.

Making a deal with Grizzly is not as easy or viable as you seem to think. There is a company which did go down this route, and let us just say that it did not work out. I am not at liberty to go into details.

All of what you say is so easy to say, and more difficult to implement in this world, even though I agree that Grizzly's manuals are great.

Ketan at ARC.

[Steve WithnellParticipant @stevewithnell34426]

I must be a dozy bugger – I thought my C6 manual was pretty good and I can source all the spares by reference to it from Arc.

It describes setting up the machine in a straightforward way that a novice can understand.

What's not in it that I should be complaining about?

Steve

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Steve,

It's a two way street. some of the armchair lawyers on here are just too ready to keep banging the "Fit for purpose" drum but no one ever asks if the user is "Fit for purpose".

I have met plenty that I wouln't trust with a stick of licorice.

In your case Steve, rush out into the workshop and make up a big badge saying "Fit for purpose " and wear it with pride.

John S.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Hi Steve,

Some SIEG manuals are better then others.

This thread started off about a WM14 (SIEG does not manufacture this machine), and progressed onto general expectations of machine manuals for cheap machines, in a small but extreamly competitive market. The suggestions are sound, but I was making a commercial case for why it was difficult to consider.

Its so funny. At the engineering shows, a good majority of potential buyers who are new and do not know us, try to play one seller off against another (which is understandable)…bottom line being 'what will it cost'?…not….Is your manual better then his?, if so, I will buy it from you….

At the last Harrogate Show, there were four sellers selling the WM14 (not ARC). Can you guess who fought and got most of the orders? I will give you a few clues: it wasnt the one with the best manual!..it wasnt the one supplying the WM14 with the better electronics circuit…it want even the one who had good service and spares back-up. There are at least three assemblers making and selling the WM14, all based in the same town, making the same thing to three different specs. The original joint veture operator maker was Optimum, and guess whos copy manual goes out with all clones of the WM14 if they can get away with it?

Under such a competitive climate, it definately makes it more difficult for Roger at WARCO to promote the WM14 to new people entering the hobby, especially as they dont know WARCO from others. So, what insentive does he have to make a better manual then the others?

Bring in the mini-lathes into the story, there were at least eight versions available at the show, along with the marketing crap which goes with it. ARC only managed to sell the C3s and SC3s to buyers who knew of us, or were recommended by others to us, or to people who had seen our prep.guides. We did not sell any to new people who did not know us, especailly because these new people chose to believe what they were told by certain competitors rightly or wrongly, over what we said. Non of them asked us "Oh what is the quality of your manual like" .

Ketan at ARC.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

How about making the manuals open-source? Then all the users can contribute to them as they learn the niceties of the machines. There's no great incntive for Ketan to produce a good manual, but plenty for the users or prospective users.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

You make an interesting suggestion John H. We will keep it in mind.

Ketan at ARC.

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

There's nothing stopping any competent owners or other knowledgeable people putting their own operators manual together and making it available to the rest of the community – why not do that?

Martin.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by blowlamp on 25/07/2012 16:25:00:

There's nothing stopping any competent owners or other knowledgeable people putting their own operators manual together and making it available to the rest of the community – why not do that?

Martin.

Because then they wouldn't have anything to moan and bitch about.

Plus the fact that 7 people would write the first chapter 8 different ways.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Hi Geof, & all

Fortunate enough to see this write up,having just received my WM16 2 weeks ago I was wondering about checking quill set up & trammeling the head so the comments are very informative.I have not put it in its final place as have yet to get my WM 250V-F delivered & placed,hopefully early next week so have not done anything with it other than remove from packaging & put onto its stand.I have tested it out as far as motor running & speed range & all seem ok..so far.

Did receive my WM250V-F at the same time but on checking there was a major fault with the assembly (turned out to be manufacturing fault) so a phone call to Warco with an explanation (long story..& photos!) has resulted in Warco sending me a replacement from their next batch, due in this week.I must add that Warco after sales have been very apologetic & have taken on board my comments from an e-mail I sent stating my concerns & initial disappointment of the quality of the lathe, having commented that this is the first time this type of defect has been encountered Warco are reassuring me that a thorough pre-delivery inspection will be carried out on the replacement.Will keep you all posted.

Cheers

George

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Oooops ..Should read 'tramming'..I think, grey matter's a bit slow today!

G

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

What about having a wikipedia style website for manuals?

Neil

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

 

 

Edited By V8Eng on 28/07/2012 21:56:43

[PekkaNFParticipant @pekkanf]

Almost missed this thread.

I must say that I agree 100% on what Mr. Ketan says. I have seen it on very many products, some of them industrial. Somehow majority of people find it very much easier compare prices only instead of usability.

Then again it is really hard to make descision based on specs only, because quoted figures are not very useful or they are oprimistic. Some companies makes it easier to compare producs than others.

Pekka

[Robert AskewParticipant @robertaskew15193]

just had my Warco Super Major Verio delivered 15/02/2019

and checking spindle squareness to table

left to right x Axis spot on front to back y axis.008 out not happy

waiting for an answer from warco

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Which is it? WM14 as per title or Super Vario as per text. Slightly different machines, WM14 is tiny Super Vario is quite large!

John

[Robert AskewParticipant @robertaskew15193]

super major vario

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

0.008mm or 0.008" and over what distance?

[Robert AskewParticipant @robertaskew15193]

.008” over full with of table 8.5 “

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Lower at front or back? Remember when cutting that the forces will tend to tilt the column back, so it could even conceivably be made that way. But for an out of the box Chinese machine tool that doesn't seem too bad to me.

[Robert AskewParticipant @robertaskew15193]

Lower at back higher at front

.004” low at back .004 high at front

sorry but not exctable to me

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember32069]

[This posting has been removed]

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

What's the spec, did it come with an inspection certificate?

[Author]

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