Warco minimill OR SIEG Super X2 OR none of them ?

[MarcuSwedenParticipant @marcusweden]

The XJ12 mill from Amadeal arrived here in Thursday last week and today i picked it up from DHL, i have not had time to use it but the shipping from Amadeal was faster then expected and they answer very fast at E-mail.

 

 

 

Will post pictures and more information, right now i dont have so much time for hobby but next week i think i will.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Its not only the Chinese that grind the numbers off the semiconductors, I’v had stuff from UK USA Japan, and NZ, its a bit of bind. Ian S C the Chinese ones prberbly did’nt have a number in the first place!

[MarcuSwedenParticipant @marcusweden]

This is how it looks like and the first thing i saw was :

 

 

“Mini-Lathe” hehe , atleast the other data is quite right.

 

Second thing i see is that the spindle locking bolt is damaged, so i make one special key in Hardox44 with a waterjet machine.

 

 

 

I will mail Amadeal about the spindle locking bolt, hopefuly they will believe me if i send picture.

 

The electronic board is equipped with the two semiconductors “D8010L” and “A69108” , i think thoose are not real semiconductors becouse i can not find their specifications or datasheet so it is impossible to know what to exchange them with or how to measure them and know that they are broken.

 

i started the machine just for a few seconds to listen to the spindle and as i thought it sounds like it would be good to exchange the bearings to something better, maybe some better SKF bearings.

 

I also noticed that the “fine feeding” on Z-axis didnt work , i dont know what is wrong and didnt had the time to examine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited By MarcuSweden on 23/03/2010 18:05:34

[Peter GainParticipant @petergain89847]

Hi Marcus,

“Should have gone to Warco”! (Paraphase of UK TV advert).

Peter Gain.

[john naylor 1Participant @johnnaylor1]

Had my Warco Mini mill for about 6 years now.during which time the only problems were plastic gear breakages.(twice).I sourced the metal gears from USA (dont remember where)and at the same time replaced the angular contact spindle bearings whith taper Roller bearings and made a new spindle lock pin with a spring return.The bearings were be fitted with no modifications to the machine and now I have the confidence to take heavier cuts without the fear of breaking gears. A friend of mine has built me a box of electronics for a power traverse.I supplied him with a 220V/12v transformer(10 amps) and a 12v DC (8amp) geared motor(120rpm output) this motor looks like a heavy duty windscreen wiper jobby,He did the rest.Now I have forward and reverse variable speed control with adjustable limit switches and a fast return switch which makes machining long items a breeze.I will post some photos when I can.

[Jesse Hancock 1Participant @jessehancock1]

Oh lordy be, I have it in mind to change my Clarke micro mill for something with a bit more flexibility as to size. Incase youre unaware this waste of space micro mill has all the above mentioned drawbacks including a badly made taper on the spindle head.ie The chuck falls off at the first sign of vibration. It came loose as I was milling a casting and could have easily resulted in me scrapping the casting. Expensive in a relative sense.

Like the man says you pay your money. There's no way I'd pass this on and so I will scrap it or keep it in the corner as a reminder of a badly thought out decision.

So far: Warco mini mill £755.00 from tthere prices jump up at about £700 increments.

Clarke at Machine Mart: Mini Mill £553.00 I assume it has all the ills that my micro mill has. This is as large as Clarke handles I think.

Add £88.70 for a Vee belt drive from Turkey it seems….. comes to £641.70

Belt drive for quiet running and clutch/slip effect.

Please feel free to jump in if you have some better ideas.

Jesse.

Edited By Jesse Hancock 1 on 16/01/2015 09:51:34

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Oh lordy lordy be Jesse,

Are you holding an end mill in a drill chuck which is supplied with the machine from Clarke?

Ketan at ARC

[Jesse Hancock 1Participant @jessehancock1]

I must confess I have tried and since I have read that it's not a good idea. So I guess I have to add a decent milling head to the cost and a good heavy vise to boot.

Please note the only milling attempted so far has been on aluminium with shallow cuts.

Another overall factor is just size this thing is just too small over all.

Care to give round figures on all this? Perhaps I should head over to your site and have a butchers.

Jesse.

Well a Seig is way over the top of my budget. Looks a nice little tool.

Edited By Jesse Hancock 1 on 16/01/2015 14:07:11

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Jesse,

As you have discovered, milling with drill chuck is a BAD idea. But, it is not absolutely necessary to go to the expense of buying a proper milling chuck. A suitable alternative is to use suitably sized collets of the type finger, direct, or MT collets (all names seem to apply).

It appears that the Clarke micro Mill uses the MT2 taper in the spindle and suitable collets are available at around £5 and use either a 6mm or a 10mm drawbar. Obviously I don't know what size your milling cutters are, or if they are suitable for use in these collets however, if bought as necessary, the overall cost can be spread around over a long period of time.

I'd also add that using a drawbar holds both collet and cutter securely.

Furthermore, if your lathe, assuming you have one, also has a MT2 taper in the headstock, then these collets can be used there as well. In addition, these collets can be used to hold material of the appropriate size, not just for milling cutting tools.

For information, both my milling machine and my lathe have a MT3 taper and I use these collets to both hold cutters in both lathe and milling machine, and to hold round material in the lathe.

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

Edited By Peter G. Shaw on 16/01/2015 14:28:15

Edited By Peter G. Shaw on 16/01/2015 14:29:17

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Jesse,

Sorry, what I am trying to say is that you should be holding a milling cutter in a MT2 collet, or MT2 end mill holder, or MT2 ER milling collet chuck.

I am not a 100% sure, but your opening comments suggest that you are holding a milling cutter in a drill chuck. Your drill chuck is probably fitted to a JT2 or similar taper. Generally drill chucks are designed for vertical movement – up and down, rather than side to side – as associated with milling. Hence, if you hold an end mill in a drill chuck, the drill chuck will vibrate loose off the JT2 taper, as a drill chuck, along with JT taper are only designed for drilling, rather than milling.

You have to remove the drill chuck with MT2 drill chuck arbor to which it is fitted, from your Clarke CMD10 mill. Then put in an appropriate MT2 collet/end mill holder/ER milling collet chuck, to hold your end mill.

The simplest and easiest thing to do is to buy MT2 collets. Call and speak with me at ARC if you want me to explain.

Ketan at ARC.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Just to add to what peter said about collets that fit the spindle taper you will also gain a lot of extra height as a typical drill chuck takes up 75-100mm.

J

[Clive FarrarParticipant @clivefarrar90441]

its a vauge forlorn hope but does anyone know the TRUE value and type of the redy brown capacitor in the middle left side of Marcus's control board photo. I think mine has blown due to the grey powder film on it, every thing else is spotlessly clean.

I know mine says SRMA 104K 400v on the side but i have not been able to trace that.

Please don't ask me to go on the various mini mill /lathe sites I have done that and downloaded circuit diagrams till I am blue in the face and I am still not much wiser hence this plee.

I really think my best option is to bit the bullet and go 3 phase Newton Tesla et all.

Thanks Clive

[Anonymous]

Posted by Clive Farrar on 16/01/2015 14:35:18:

I know mine says SRMA 104K 400v on the side but i have not been able to trace that.

Looks like a metallised polyester capacitor, 400VDC rating and 10 to the power 4 picofarads, or 10nF in more useful units.

Andrew

[Martin WhittleParticipant @martinwhittle67411]

Slight correction: the capacitor value shown as 104 gives a value of 100nF.

The first two digits give the basic value, the last is a multiplier as a power of 10, so 104 is read as 10 x 10E4, i.e. 10^5 or 100,000pF

'K' gives a tolerance of +/-10%

Martin

[Clive FarrarParticipant @clivefarrar90441]

OK so that's actually 0.1uF on the sites I've been checking.

Andrew just double checking you did mean polyester and not polypropylene ? as PP seem to be far more common than PE

Regards Clive

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Jesse,

As Jason says, these collets will indeed maximise the headroom available. I forgot to say that.

Also, in case you don't know, Ketan owns Arc Euro Trade and is very helpful and knowledgeable indeed, way above any desire to sell you something, although obviously he would like to do just that. You won't regret talking to him.

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

[Martin WhittleParticipant @martinwhittle67411]

Clive

I believe your capacitor is polyester (PE, also known as PET). A data sheet is on http://surgecomponents.com/admin/pdfs/SRMA.pdf, although I would regard this as a poor sheet, as it does not specify dielectric type as polyester (it does elsewhere on the site); also despite the drawing showing lead spacing, it does not give dimensions (at a guess, you will find yours is 0.4" between leads). Any parts from Farnell or Maplins etc with the required value and voltage rating that is capable of physically fitting would be fine. Higher voltage rating is again perfectly acceptable.

If you search for 'polyester capacitor 100nF 400V' on a well known auction site, you will find pictures that look remarkably similar to your component!

A polypropylene capacitor would be fine, and is a superior type in terms of high pulse current handling and other aspects; they would typically be somewhat larger but may well fit. A 275V AC Class X2 (used for fail-safe use in decoupling 240V mains) part would also be OK.

Hope this helps, and that you don't find further problems!

Martin

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

does anyone have a fix for the Y axis backlash? Its a nightmare when it pulls the cutter into the work!

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi Clive,
I suspect the capacitor could be 275 volts AC rating. I agree it is 0.1 uf / 100 nF. You may find one in the mains input filter from an old PC power supply. (Or other switched mode power supply.)

Les.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Fizzy, that's why you don't climb mill and do lock the other axes.

[Clive FarrarParticipant @clivefarrar90441]

Dear all thanks for your very helpful replies.

I now understand what I need and i have found a source at a reasonable price.

Before I try that though i am going to remove the motor recheck it over and make sure it will spin up under 12v.

Once I know the motor is still sound i will get the parts and try to fix the board.

Its worth spending a few quid to see if i can avoid a £350 alternative.

Particular thanks to Ketan of ARC for his unprompted , but welcome , and informative phone call.

Regards clive

[oldveloParticipant @oldvelo]

Hi

Had a quick read through this subject and almost fell of my chair with Clive Farrar's comment

"Once I know the motor is still sound i will get the parts and try to fix the board.

Its worth spending a few quid to see if i can avoid a £350 alternative".

Is Dick Turpins progeny still alive and well in England.

A replacement controller is available Ex USA for $81.95 that will do the job.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electric-Motors/DC-Motors/Motor-Speed-Controllers/90-180-VDC-SPEED-CONTROL-W-POT-11-2269.axd

Set up to match the motor correctly this is an excellent alternative.

One of these is on my X2 mill and performs faultless at all times with a 1.25 hp motor.

Got rid of the noisy and fragile gear drive and fitted a "Poly Vee" Belt Drive.

Pics in my album

Eric

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi Clive,
I think this is the correct schematic and other information on your speed control board. One other thing you could try as a rough test of the board is to connect a 40 or 60 watt 240 volt bulb (The old fashioned tungsten filament type bulb.) in place of the motor and see if the speed control changed the brightness of the bulb.

Les.

Edited By Les Jones 1 on 18/01/2015 18:08:55

[Clive FarrarParticipant @clivefarrar90441]

Hi Les thanks for your continued support. I had found and downloaded that info and was about 80% sure it was the right stuff. You have now confirmed that for me, much appreciated.

I will try the bulb across it and see but I think it is totally dead at the moment.

Bearing In mind it is only a light machine, with I think a 350 w motor, if I go the inverter 3 phase route what would people recommend.

3/4 hp ( 560w ) or 1 hp (750w ) 1440 rpm. At only £16 more I'm tempted to go for the 1hp after all its like a throttle and you don't have to run it flat out all the time.

Regards Clive

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi Clive,
I think one thing to consider is the weight of the motor and its physical size compared with the DC motor. I think it is unlikely that the capacitor C21 is the cause of the fault. (I have no solid evidence to support this.) I think you should try to identify weather the fault is the motor, the board or possibly the reversing switch before going the 3 phase motor / VFD route.

Les.

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