Warco MD30B Major Mill

[paul mcquaidParticipant @paulmcquaid48093]

HI,

I have acquired a Warco Major Mill/Drill (1997 model) and want to know how to adjust the alignment. All I can find on the internet is videos where they don't show the nut/bolt's or whatever they have loosened to adjust it by tapping with a mallet. The Pdf manual Warco sent me says there are two bolts to undo, However these are not present on my one, so I'm assuming my Major isn't the same model.. Anybody got one of these that could actually tell me how to do this?

Also are there any books that explain how to use this particular model Warco mill in English for beginners. (not everyone was able to study engineering at college!) But i am sure if i am told what bits do what I am competent enough to pick it up as I go along all be it making mistakes self teaching. This is how I have always managed to do things from Mechanics, Welding, Mot'ing Cars/Bikes plus a lot more qualifications all done through hard work the hard way… pretty much all self taught.

[paul mcquaidParticipant @paulmcquaid48093]

Tramming (Alignment)

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

If the mill is one of the round column types, there is unlikely to be any need to tramm it. The only picture of an older typr of MD30B major I could find looks like this:

**LINK**

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Paul,

Having seen a picture, it could be a Bridgeport clone in which case you may find a clamping bolt on the side behind the spindle head with a scale round it. That will allow you to tram for 'nod' and assuming there is ram to allow the head to traverse front to back, there should be clamp bolts pitching that so that you can tram in the opposite direction

You may find the nose in the spindle is broad enough, when you have wound the spindle down to contact the table, to judge the tram when using the controls I have mentioned and set things up to get the nose in full contact with the table. When in that position, clamp up the pinch bolts and nod bolt and you will be on tram

Regards Brian

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Surprised to see both Warco Majors are still current in the Warco website.

The GH (gear head) can tilt left or right, the belt drive cannot.

Both round column mounts look to have the same 4 bolts at the base.

Should the tram actually need fixing it's fairly obvious which bolts will need packing after the removal of any paint left in the joint.

Hopefully the machine will already have a milling chuck and a vice. The drill chuck supplied from new is not suitable for milling.

[paul mcquaidParticipant @paulmcquaid48093]

Hi,

So this means there are no tramming adjusting pinch bolts as shown on various youtube and the later Major manual pdf sent by warco then?

They seemed to imply that you undid a couple of (unshown) bolts and tap with a mallet to adjust the alignment. When really what you have to do is stick a spacer (shim) under whichever side is needed to be adjusted.

It has an MT3 ER32 collet chuck as well as a drill chuck because it is a drill too.. I have already said I am new to this and trying to find info on which bolt adjusts what on this specific machine is virtually impossible. It seems to be assumed everyone that wants to do machining at home has been fully trained in all aspects of engineering at a college or somewhere. Unfortunately I am not one , But would like to learn, If only I could find any info…

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Not certain what an MD30B actually is, so a picture would help identify it for sure. My guess is it's the common round column mill like the one linked by Old Mart, or this current Warco model.

If so download the Grizzly Manual for their similar machine. Grizzly Manuals are usually more comprehensive than British ones.

I doubt there's a beginners guide to this particular machine, but don't worry, in this class they're all much this same! The controls differ in detail rather than function. You might invest in a copy of our very own Jason Ballamy's "Milling for Beginners",

I echo Dave Halford's concern that the machine really needs tramming? What's wrong with the way it cuts, and how is the error being measured? The concern is tramming is much easier to upset than improve.

However, assuming it's the same machine, and after doing what Grizzly say about installation and levelling and being sure it's worth fixing, read on.

I believe the round column is fixed to the base with four vertical bolts or nuts on studding, one of which can be seen right-rear in the Warco picture above.

After the bolts are slackened, the column is lifted so that corrective shims can be inserted underneath. Easy in principle. Several owners have reported their problem was paint splashes under the column foot, in which case the the whole will have to be lifted off and both sides cleaned.

It's a heavy and clumsy job, and inserting the shims correctly is likely to be fiddly. As a weakling with a bad back I'd use an engine crane. Can anyone who has done it advise Paul please? My feeling is best to learn the ropes and read the book before attempting to tram a mill.

Dave

[DiogenesIIParticipant @diogenesii]

Can I ask something to help me understand the problem better?

To many people here, 'Tram' means that the spindle is skewiff and not aligned straight up and down above the table, but I think the question you are asking is about the alignment of the head around the column?

Is that right?

[DiogenesIIParticipant @diogenesii]

The nuts that clamp the head to the column are located on the r/h/side, right at the back of the head casting. Without going to measure I think they are M16 so prob. something like 24mm AF.

As far as I know all the Majors/RF30's have a pair of nuts / bolts to clamp the head, if yours is different a picture of what it looks like would help.

[paul mcquaidParticipant @paulmcquaid48093]

Hi.

Thanks for the drawing Mine isn't like that. Where your bolts are, mine are just holes and dead in between those is a single nut which is used with a large chrome handle to undo to raise and lower the whole unit on a rack and pinion crank via a handle on the left side it is also used to swivel the unit right or left. That is the only thing it does though. but if it is out of line, So is this the only way to to adjust it? By unbolting the four mount screws and packing which ever side makes it out?

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

If Diogenes is right, then you have come across the main drawback of round column mills. When the two nuts are slackened off to raise or lower the head, the spindle axis can swing right or left an unknown ammount which is a bother. This is not tramming but loss of position. We have one of these mills at the museum and I have fitted a laser on the right side of the head (facing the mill) and the beam reflects off a window about 12 feet away and back to a white patch next to the laser. With great care you can get about +- 0.001" as the beam is not perfect and the window glass nothing special.

Regarding drill chucks, they are not intended for used with milling cutters, firstly they don't hold well with the side forces, and secondly the chuck could fall off the arbor.

 

Edited By old mart on 26/03/2023 21:25:39

Edited By old mart on 26/03/2023 21:30:27

Edited By old mart on 26/03/2023 21:32:29

[paul mcquaidParticipant @paulmcquaid48093]

Don't know how to post pictures otherwise i would send one. But this whole site is impossible to work out nothing is normal..

[OldironParticipant @oldiron]

Hi Paul. Add pictures to album

regards

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Posted by paul mcquaid on 26/03/2023 21:11:07:

Hi.

Thanks for the drawing Mine isn't like that. Where your bolts are, mine are just holes and dead in between those is a single nut which is used with a large chrome handle to undo to raise and lower the whole unit on a rack and pinion crank via a handle on the left side it is also used to swivel the unit right or left. That is the only thing it does though. but if it is out of line, So is this the only way to to adjust it? By unbolting the four mount screws and packing which ever side makes it out?

Hi Paul, that sounds as if it is a previous owner modification, and the two holes you mention probably had bolts in them as shown in DiogenesII drawing. If it has been modified, then the head will have less grip on the column and could lead to cracking of the head casting in that area, let alone the possible twisting round of the head during heavy cuts.

Regards Nick.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Posted by paul mcquaid on 26/03/2023 19:45:35:

Hi,

So this means there are no tramming adjusting pinch bolts as shown on various youtube and the later Major manual pdf sent by warco then?

They seemed to imply that you undid a couple of (unshown) bolts and tap with a mallet to adjust the alignment. When really what you have to do is stick a spacer (shim) under whichever side is needed to be adjusted.

It has an MT3 ER32 collet chuck as well as a drill chuck because it is a drill too.. I have already said I am new to this and trying to find info on which bolt adjusts what on this specific machine is virtually impossible. It seems to be assumed everyone that wants to do machining at home has been fully trained in all aspects of engineering at a college or somewhere. Unfortunately I am not one , But would like to learn, If only I could find any info…

Try this one Paul Tramming a round column mill – YouTube as usual with U tube there's 75% faffing and pointless chat It's probably the most mistreated very old mill I've ever seen and the shim looks huge.

Btw I have to say that around 75% of those on here have not been machinists, several are from Telecoms, myself included and one is still a Vet.

With model engineers the big problem is they like to Mod things because someone on Utube says it's much better and will spend an hour telling you so, but miss out a vital step and then you end up with a machine thats different others. For instance the mill in Old Marts link can also be found as a google photo search where the photos are not cropped, one shows two of the bolts holding the column to the base casting one stands proud and is not painted so it's a mod for tramming. However a shim is better as the last thing you need is building in extra wobble that shows on the work.

[DiogenesIIParticipant @diogenesii]

So I have a picture of Paul's mill with the single-bolt head fixing, which with his permission I post below.

It's interesting.. ..I've asked Paul to take a look up inside the head and see if he can make out what's what, and why/how this has been done.. ..were they made like this?

The column bolt arrangement is also totally different to mine, which is bolted to the base at the bottom

 

 

 

Edited By DiogenesII on 27/03/2023 21:19:04

Edited By DiogenesII on 27/03/2023 21:20:09

Edited By DiogenesII on 27/03/2023 21:22:06

Edited By DiogenesII on 27/03/2023 21:23:20

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi DiogenesII, that one is different to mine also, if you look at the scan below, it shows both the Minor and the Major from Warco's 30 year catalogue, the label on the front of the belt and pulley cover on the Minor one has Major on it, and I think this is the one that Paul has, as the electric cable entry and the column fixing is the same and the angel iron bracket under the belt and pulley cover which can be seen in Paul's photo can also just be seen in the scan on the Minor one. To be sure, the table size on Paul's machine needs to be known, but it does match the one in Old Mart's link.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 27/03/2023 23:37:35

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

That explains why Pauls doesn't match the info from Warco.

So can we now assume that the missing clamp bolts may be why the tram is off and why he's somewhat unhappy?

[paul mcquaidParticipant @paulmcquaid48093]

Hi.

Table size is 736 x 210 which is the mill drill on the left even though it says Minor.

Mine looks exactly like this major even the X and Y handle bosses are the same Green colour the new ones seem to be yellow. But mine is a central Nut not two bolts.

I have been communicating with Paul about this and have sent some more photo's hopefully he will put them on, As I have been finding it quite difficult..

I have found a youtube link from Forme Industrious restoring a 1984 mode RF30 which also has this single bolt arrangement.

[paul mcquaidParticipant @paulmcquaid48093]

Hi.

Table size is 736 x 210 which is the mill drill on the left even though it says Minor.

Mine looks exactly like this major even the X and Y handle bosses are the same Green colour the new ones seem to be yellow. But mine is a central Nut not two bolts.

I have been communicating with Paul about this and have sent some more photo's hopefully he will put them on, As I have been finding it quite difficult..

I have found a Youtube video from Forme Industrious restoring a 1984 mode RF30 which also has this single bolt arrangement.

[mgnbukParticipant @mgnbuk]

I have an RF30 mill / drill branded TruTool, whcih appears to be the same model as the Warco Major.

The head is clamped to the column with two through bolts

The bolts just push out, the bolt head sitting in a cast pocket in the head casting LHS (viewed from the front).

The bolts on my machine appear to be 5/8"-11 UNC, 6" long. Switching units, the bolt head is 25.7mm AF & the nut 23 mm AF. The OE nut wrench sits in a purpose made pocket in the motor mounting plate.

Sorry for the rotated mobile phone pics.

HTH

Nigel B.

Edited By mgnbuk on 28/03/2023 13:32:42

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Paul, it is certainly a bit of a mystery, but I have found two other illustrations of the two different machines, the first one is from about 1985, and in this one it has Minor on the belt and pulley cover. The second one is from 2002, and both illustrations seem to show the same machine and both have Major on the cover.

The only other dimensions you could check are the diameters of the spindle and the column and overall height, the spindle speed ranges are also a little different.

Your central locking of the head arrangement could be similar to the type shown below.

The yellow colouring on the handle bosses, seems to be started in their 2007 catalogue, and in which the Minor machine didn't appear, and I guess was discontinued by then.

Regards Nick.

[paul mcquaidParticipant @paulmcquaid48093]

Hi Nigel.

The Youtube video I put in was the wrong one but there is another one called TRU-LINE-8 RF30 KIT showing a single nut version, Like my Warco MD30B.

[paul mcquaidParticipant @paulmcquaid48093]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm8jB3qGEXw&ab_channel=BruceWhitham.

This is the Youtube video in question.

I don't think it is a mod as the casting is different too.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I would be interested to know whether the cut in line with the column at the rear of the head exists or has been left out when the casting was machined. The centre line clamping which would be similar to the photo by Nicholas Farr would not be very effective if the rear of the head could flex. The two holes without bolts might have been a legacy from the last of the batch of castings still unused when the modification was made. If the cut is present, bolts could be fitted, but not tightened enough to prevent the head being raised and lowered and they would restrict any springing when the single clamp was tightened.

A lot of the drawbacks with the round column design can be circumvented bu careful planning before cutting metal. The quill has 5" movement and a lot of jobs can be completed without needing to move the head up and down. With a er collet chuck and a set of collets, you can also hold many sizes of drills as well as milling cutters and not have to allow for the much longer drill chuck.

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