warco lathes.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Don't forget a 13A fuse will carry 13 amps indefinitely, it needs 20+ amps to blow a 13A fuse quickly.

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Antony Powell on 24/04/2017 21:48:56:

 

[…]

I'm not impressed with the attitude of Warco they don't seem to be overly interested, they don't return calls' they don't seem to do anything quickly, when they answer the telephone the way the do, I can't see me dealing with them in the future….I was sold this Lathe with a full 12 month warranty, which is now parts only after six months

[…]

.

Tony,

I thoroughly agree … but I did feel obliged to have a look at Warco's Terms & Conditions:

**LINK**

http://www.warco.co.uk/content/3-terms-and-conditions-of-use

1.  
2.  
3.  
4. A 12 months warranty is supplied from delivery date. For UK mainland customers, first six months of warranty to include parts and our labour costs. For customers outside UK mainland, first six months warranty to include parts only. At our discretion warranty work during the first six months will be carried out on the customer's premises or the goods will be returned to our works at our cost and re-delivered at our cost. Second six months warranty is parts only, delivered at our cost.

.

It may not be what we would consider reasonable … but it is clearly stated.

.

Given your description of the wiring though; I'm with V8Eng … This is not really a matter for Warranty Claims; it is a matter that needs to be referred to Trading Standards [if only for the safety of others].

 

MichaelG.

 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 24/04/2017 23:56:00

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Antony Powell on 24/04/2017 17:03:07:

The whole power cable earth along with other earthing wires inside the circuit board box have all got so hot the insulation has melted & Burnt

no fuses blew and no trips went on the machine

something has obviously shorted the mains directly to ground

The main circuit breaker in the garage tripped out and cut the power were it not for this I could have been electrocuted or had my garage burn down

It's highly unlikely a component failure would result in a short to ground, other than a lead or some other connection coming loose.

I destroyed a controller board on my lathe when a long 'snake' of swarf entered through the hole for the leadscrew (newer versions of my lathe have a rubber grommet here) and shorted the supply to earth.

The source of the original short ought to be evident with charring or other damage. Are you able to identify a loose supply wire or stray swarf?

Neil

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 24/04/2017 23:51:32:

This is not really a matter for Warranty Claims; it is a matter that needs to be referred to Trading Standards [if only for the safety of others].

MichaelG.

.

This thought did also occur to me. (so long as it seems the customers electrical supply is A1) As this may have turned into a fire.

I may be wrong on this point, but are 'terms and conditions' often over ruled by the supply of goods act.??

Lastly. Is there something we are not being told of / aware of here about all this.?? It seems incredible (to me) that Warco would be so dismissive and have their name branded as mud upon a widely read forum such as this without good reason. Do they not have a presence on here like Keatan of ARC does. I doubt he would have let this get to this stage without comment.!

Lastly,,,, lastly. I hope this issue gets sorted for you.

Nick

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Nick,

I think this would be the most relevant legislation

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/contents

.

It's also worth looking at this guidance for Suppliers [from Trading Standards Wales]

http://www.tradingstandardswales.org.uk/templates/asset-relay.cfm?frmAssetFileID=80

This paragraph is probably pertinent:

Any person putting his name or mark on the product, e.g. a supermarket could be liable for damage caused by its 'own brand' products, even though the products were made by someone else on its behalf.

MichaelG.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by Nick_G on 25/04/2017 00:34:25:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 24/04/2017 23:51:32:

This is not really a matter for Warranty Claims; it is a matter that needs to be referred to Trading Standards [if only for the safety of others].

 

MichaelG.

 

Lastly. Is there something we are not being told of / aware of here about all this.?? It seems incredible (to me) that Warco would be so dismissive and have their name branded as mud upon a widely read forum such as this without good reason. Do they not have a presence on here like Keatan of ARC does. I doubt he would have let this get to this stage without comment.!

Nick

I would hate to say it (as I do own one), but I think they make far too much to care, the advert on the magazine/web would be all the PR they need, they have been around for a longwhiles and probably make most of their gains from shows and word-of-mouth, hell maybe even a few colleges have warco's sitting in them.

That said, I have never had any reason to dislike them, their spares department have been far better to me than Clarke ever were, I think it's luck of the draw on who happens to take your order most of the time.

Michael W

Edited By Michael-w on 25/04/2017 01:35:04

[Antony PowellParticipant @antonypowell28169]

It's the lack of urgency and the loud sigh when they answer the telephone that annoys the most, it's like they just don't want to know about it !!

I'm afraid like most people the longer it drags on the more annoyed, nit picky, Wound up etc I get

To me there is no question that the problem starts and ends with the lathe as any and all damage is (luckily) contained within the lathe itself.

If a piece of swarf could cause this sort of damage then the item is not fit for purpose (you obviously expect swarf on a lathe)

As for the warranty I was verbally told A full 12 month warranty with no mention of it turning to parts only after 6 months (in front of a witness who is an retired county court employee), which trumps their terms according to citizens advise.As it becomes part of the terms you buy under.

When you buy any item you never read the small print and expect that a warranty is for 12 months its the most common assumption everyone makes and if the courts get involved that's the basis they work upon , what the common man would think or expect is reasonable, if you pay £3000 for something you expect it to be worth £3000 you don't expect it to fail dramatically after 8 months and barely 20 hours of use

Buy the way Which says… The Sale of Goods Act 1979 has now been replaced by the Consumer Rights Act, but you may be able to claim under it if goods you bought on or before 30 September 2015 become faulty

 

At the end of the day all I want is what i paid for a lathe that works and doesn't short out !!

tony

 

Edited By Antony Powell on 25/04/2017 08:26:33

Edited By Antony Powell on 25/04/2017 08:28:08

Edited By Antony Powell on 25/04/2017 08:34:21

Edited By Antony Powell on 25/04/2017 08:34:49

[Antony PowellParticipant @antonypowell28169]

I have just called Warco again as they failed to return my call yesterday….

After i gave them the option of a replacement or a refund

They are collecting the lathe and refunding me !!

Next question what do I replace it with ??

tony

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

I have read through this thread again and it looks like it is only the earth conductor that has got hot and melted the insulation. Here are some points to consider.

1 The three cores in the mains cable between the 13 amp plug and the machine will all have the same cross sectional area so if the fault current would have also have to pass through the live conductor. (Or the neutral conductor if there was some supply fault causing a reasonable potential difference between neutral and earth AND there was a short between neutral and earth in the machine.) So if the fault current was enough to melt the insulation on the earth conductor then why did it not melt the insulation on the live (Or neutral) conductor ?

2 As the circuit is fed via an RCD any current greater than 30 mA for more than about 40 mS should have caused the RCD to trip long before the wires became hot enough to melt the insulation.

3 Could the insulation on the earth conductor heve been melted prior to the RCD tripping and shorted to live or neutral because it was damaged causing the RCD to trip.

Les.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

I was about to make a similar point to Les. I don't understand what could cause the symptoms as I've understood them from Tony's description.

I've read quite a lot on the web about electrical faults in Chinese workshop equipment and this is the first I've seen featuring a burnt out harness and mains cable. It's very interesting: I wonder if we could impose on Tony for some photographs of the damage? They might save someone else from repeating Tony's bad experience.

As to Warco, although they haven't covered themselves in customer-service glory this time, they do seem to have honoured the warranty in full. Replacement parts were provided on the 14th of April and they agreed to a full refund on 25th.

If a new Chinese lathe is off the menu, I suppose Tony will either have to buy second-hand or triple his budget. Nothing's ever easy is it!

Dave

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Antony Powell on 25/04/2017 08:41:28:

I have just called Warco again as they failed to return my call yesterday….

After i gave them the option of a replacement or a refund

They are collecting the lathe and refunding me !!

.

A good result for you, Tony

… and probably expedient for Warco.

MichaelG.

[Antony PowellParticipant @antonypowell28169]

Thanks to all for the contributions

Budget isn't really an issue as it's going through my company, claim the vat back and run it through as a capital purchase means I get a lump back off the tax (sorry to anyone if It makes you jealous)

but even so I don't want to spend too much if I can help it

All Ideas welcome…..

was looking at AXMINSTER TOOLS Run master 330 as an option, anybody got one ?

Tony

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

Posted by Antony Powell on 25/04/2017 11:17:00:

was looking at AXMINSTER TOOLS Run master 330 as an option, anybody got one ?

Tony

.

No knowledge of them.

But for that kind of money my first port of call would be to look for a near mint condition and fully kitted Harrison M300 or Colchester Student in preference.

Even contact Schaublin and ask how much they are wanting for their 125 and 150 series factory refurbs which they do.

Nick

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Antony Powell on 25/04/2017 11:17:00:

Thanks to all for the contributions

Budget isn't really an issue as it's going through my company, claim the vat back and run it through as a capital purchase means I get a lump back off the tax (sorry to anyone if It makes you jealous)

.

So presumably this is not for hobby use

MichaelG.

[Antony PowellParticipant @antonypowell28169]

Hi Michael

Of course only for work use Mr Tax man Sir !! (with a little bit of hobby when the boss isn't looking, Oops I am the boss, better not tell myself then)

Hi Nick

Will have a look thanks

Tony

Edited By Antony Powell on 25/04/2017 13:17:28

[MalcBParticipant @malcb52554]

Hi Gareth, dont know where you are located but if the logistics are suitable for you then the Bantam 2000 on the lathes.co.uk site may be well worth a look.

**LINK**

[Antony PowellParticipant @antonypowell28169]

Sorry Dave (sillyoldduffer)

Forgot to reply, Warco did send "some" parts out but failed to listen to me as I clearly stated that the wiring was melted and burnt and my electrician had condemned it.

They didn't send any wires and also sent parts removed from another machine (not new)

Hence my reasoning for invoking the sale of goods act (consumer protection) and demanding a refund / replacement due to the delay in it being repaired causing me considerable inconvenience.

I actually attended a thread cutting course at Axminster tools in Devon the other week and haven't been able to practice what I learnt since, have probably forgotten something important by now.

I thought the course was excellent by the way

Tony

[Antony PowellParticipant @antonypowell28169]

Hi MalcB

too short I'm afraid need around 850cm between centers

thanks anyway

Tony

[richardandtracyParticipant @richardandtracy]

8500mm between centres?
That is quite a large lathe… The only one I've seen bigger than that was 60ft between centres. Once upon a time it had turned shafts for ships at Chatham Dockyard..

Regards,

Richard.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Bit two faced really then, business use but use Consumer protection to get it fixed.

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

Posted by KWIL on 25/04/2017 16:13:43:

Bit two faced really then, business use but use Consumer protection to get it fixed.

If it meant they wouldn't do anything otherwise, what is he supposed to do?

Are you saying you would not have done the same in Antony's case if it were you? .

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

Posted by Nick_G on 25/04/2017 11:34:23:

No knowledge of them.

But for that kind of money my first port of call would be to look for a near mint condition and fully kitted Harrison M300

Nick

Nick

I have been on the lookout for exactly that for some while – a 'near mint condition and fully kitted Harrison M300'.

I'd love to find one for £5k (the price of the Axminster), but the going rate for what I have seen is nearer £7 or £8k .

[MalcBParticipant @malcb52554]

Posted by KWIL on 25/04/2017 16:13:43:

Bit two faced really then, business use but use Consumer protection to get it fixed.

Not as two faced as retailers that list their products as suitable for proffesional use when clearly they are not even fit for purpose in a domestic environment.

[Antony PowellParticipant @antonypowell28169]

Hi Kwil

According to CAB even business users are consumers, we all have rights, So no not two face at all.

Warco have also always been fully aware of my business status

 

Hi Richard

found my typo then…. should me 850mm

Tony

Edited By Antony Powell on 25/04/2017 19:27:13

[Ian Skeldon 2Participant @ianskeldon2]

As far as I am aware the law states that any product sold for profit on a business basis, must conform to current legislation and must be fit for the purpose for which it is being sold and described. Failure to comly is termed miss-representation.

In this case it could be argued that the product was not fit for the purpose it was being sold (such a catastrophic failure whilst performing the tasks it is supposed to be used for in such a short time).

You could have a very good case for a full refund and maybe even some compensation if any other losses have been incurred as a result.

[Author]

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