Warco Lathe Motor Issue

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Anthony,

      Posted by Anthony Salisbury on 30/12/2010 13:40:43:

I checked the pulley alignments and they seem ok at least no worse than before. I was still concerned about the belts so I got them to what I felt was right and marked across the belts to see if they where slipping. As I guessed they where slipping so I further tightened these.

 

You will allmost always get some creep between belts on a multi pulley drive, espcially after removing and remounting them.

 

Some gear oils do look and feel a bit “watery” as you say. It is best to use the grade which is recommeded by the manufacturer of your machine.

 

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 30/12/2010 14:00:23

[Anthony SalisburyParticipant @anthonysalisbury72898]

Yep it was a heavy gear box oil.  Maybe this is what is causing all my problems?

 

Might as well try it anyway, I’ll be draining that off and putting new oil in.

 

Thanks

Ant

[Anthony SalisburyParticipant @anthonysalisbury72898]

Any ideas where I can get the oil from or an equivalent?

 

Shell Tellus 68

 

Regards,

Anthony

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Anthony,

                     local bearing/power transmission supplers would be one place to try, eg. Eriks, Hayleys, ect. if you have them in your area.

 

Regards Nick.

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

Try Smith & Allan

DARREN STOKELL
VALLEY STREET
DARLINGTON
Durham
DL1 1QE
United Kingdom Phone: 01325|462228

Email: joeboddy@smithandallan.com

 

The also sell on ebay

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Anthony,

 

when you say that the belts are slipping, do you mean that both belts are slipping on startup or that there is differential creep between the two belts.  If the latter, it is not really a problem as there is bound to be some differences between the two belts and even the pulley grooves due to manufacturing tolerances. 

 

When you are starting in higher speeds, more torque is needed, just the same as trying to start your car moving in top gear, so what ever else the problems you have I wouldn’t over tighten the belts apart from anything else excessive bearing wear can be caused.

 

We used multi belt drives on large chain conveyor systems and there would always be some differential creep between some of the belts and they had to move large loads of loading when starting and the initial inertia was huge and they would be constantly stopping and starting during production runs,

 

Actually belt drives aren’t quite as simple as they seem.  Only one side of the belt does any work at any one time.  It is the portion ot the belt that is being pulled by the driver pulley from the driven pulley that is in tension and does the transmission of power.  The other portion of the belt from the driven to the driver is doing very little.  As the belt passes round the driver back to the driven, the driver is effectively pushing the belt and there is comparatively little tension in it.  As the driver pulls the belt from the driven, the belt is pulled deeper into the vee of both pulleys and the friction is what transmits the effort, the other side of the belt can flap about quite a lot.  In my early days of driving when the ‘fan’ belt slipped it was quite common to apply rosin powder, (same as used by violinists on their bows) to increase the friction and grip of the belt rather than over tightening because it was too easy to wear out the bearings of the water pump and dynamo given such a long belt and the excessive tension needed to tighten it. That was a short term fix until a new belt could be bfitted.

 

Terry

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by Anthony Salisbury on 30/12/2010 14:08:13:

Any ideas where I can get the oil from or an equivalent?

 

Shell Tellus 68

 

Regards,

Anthony

 

There are industrial oil suppliers in most areas who will have it or an equivalent.  Look up industrial lubricants in your area.  Our local engineering supplies company will get it.

 

On another thread about greases there is a link to a site where there are various oils and greases

 

T

[Anthony SalisburyParticipant @anthonysalisbury72898]

This Shell Tellus 68, does anyone know the same general oil in other brands? Fuchs, Castrol, etc?

 

Did warco confirm that is the correct oil to use?

 

Thanks,

Anthony

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by Anthony Salisbury on 30/12/2010 22:48:11:

This Shell Tellus 68, does anyone know the same general oil in other brands? Fuchs, Castrol, etc?

 

Did warco confirm that is the correct oil to use?

 

Thanks,

Anthony

 Try here for Castrol and/or email them for more information.

 

T

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

This Shell Tellus 68, does anyone know the same general oil in other brands? Fuchs, Castrol, etc?

 

Did warco confirm that is the correct oil to use?

 

That’s what it states in my manual for the GH1330 and as Warco only sell one lube oil, I guess it’s safe to assume that all their GH lathes use the same. THey actually refer to it as Shell Turbo T68, but I am reliably assured that the general name is Tellus 68.

[Anthony SalisburyParticipant @anthonysalisbury72898]

You will all like this one……..Just been hunting around for information on these oils.

 

Found out that the Shell Tellus 68 is an cSt 68 @ 40C and cSt 8.6 @100 C therefore has an ISO viscosity grade of ISO68.

 

I’ve been trying to match up what I have in the machine at the moment and I think I may have gone a little overkill.  I think it 85W-140 gear oil.  This means its about ISO 120-680.

 

Maybe this is why the motor is having real problems getting upto speed its probably like turning treacle over in the head compared to what was in there!

 

Think I will drain it tomorrow and get some new oil ordered.  Is the Shell Tellus 68 thick / thin enough?

 

Ant

 

 

[Anthony SalisburyParticipant @anthonysalisbury72898]

Yeah I had a look in my manual today but could not find any mention of the oil to be used.  I’ll assume its the same better than what I know anyway.  Been looking on the Morris Lubricants website.  They seem to have a version Triad 32, 42 or 68.  Seems its for the same use and they sell in smaller volumes.  I’ve emailed them to see what they say.

 

Thanks again,

Anthony

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

If nothing else is available 30 grade oil is usually available for use in lawn mowers with 4st motors(they don’t like multi grade automotive stuff either).  But you may need a lighter oil as its winter time.  Ian S C

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Multi V belts, in industrial usage, are always fitted as matched sets, ie. the set is specially selected to be the same lengths. Doubt if this is needed for your light use though, might be worth checking. Hang both belts over a round bar, say 3″ or 4″ dia.use another bar to tension lightly and see if both bars are parallel. Light hydraulic oil I get from tractor shops, usually much cheaper than other places.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Gordon,

Posted by Gordon W on 31/12/2010 10:55:07:

Multi V belts, in industrial usage, are always fitted as matched sets, ie. the set is specially selected to be the same lengths.

 

 

 

 

 Where I worked a few years ago, they had that policy. However because of a very high number of machines involved, there were many of them that used the same size belts, but some only 3 belts some 4,5 and even 6. The stores stock level was keep to the highest amount needed for any one drive size. Consequencely if you had to use 4 out of a 6 set you would have 2 left from a matched set of 6 combined with 4 new stock ones. With a stock level of around 1000 belts booking out a set of 6 to use only 4 or 3 was a no-no, so a mixture often happened.

 

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 31/12/2010 11:27:53

[Anthony SalisburyParticipant @anthonysalisbury72898]

This could be a good new year.

 

After about two and half hours the oil drained off the headstock.  I realise now how thick that oil was.  After draining off I fired up the machine to see if this was the problem………guess what…….fired up perfectly!!!

 

Now the only question I have is does anyone know any motor repair places in the North West UK that are good?  I want to get the motors checked cause I’m sure the capacitors are damaged but would perfer to get it checked out proper?

 

Someone earlier mentioned becasue I have changed to the smaller motor I have to change an overload?  What is this?

 

Thanks for the help,

Ant

[Anthony SalisburyParticipant @anthonysalisbury72898]

Ok

Just a little more help required.

 

Think it might be worth changing these capacitors on the motor.  I have pics of the two on the 2hp motor they are the same on the 1.5hp motor.  Could some guide me too the product code of the capacitors from a supplier?  CPC, RS, Farnell?

 

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/

 

http://cpc.farnell.com/

 

http://uk.farnell.com/

 

 

 

 

Thanks,

Ant

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Ant,

 

Your best matches are:-

 

for 150micro 265Vac  RS 117-221 

 

for 25 micro 400Vac    Rapid Online 10-2952

 

K

[DericParticipant @deric]

Anthony, Hi,

 

Checkout this link:- (copy and paste into your browser)

 

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=browseSubRange&Ne=4294953839&N=4294951962&productNum=3778813

 

These are  ‘proper’  Run/Start caps they are self healing and have built in safety  in an aluminium case.

They are a bit fiddly to fit but you can CAREFULLY cut the stud off the case to make them fit into the existing box on the motor.

 

I picked the appropriate ones and replaced them on my mill motor 1.5hp same as yours.

 

Regards

Deric

 

[DericParticipant @deric]

Anthony,

 

I forgot to mention RS have their own equivalent s for these Caps (a bit cheaper) – look over on the right hand side of the screen

 

Regards

 

Deric

[Anthony SalisburyParticipant @anthonysalisbury72898]

Deric,

Just to make sure I understand correctly I need to buy:-

1 x RS 377-8829 for 25 micro 500Vac  (will this be ok because I only need it for 400Vac?) 

1 x RS 117-221 for 150micro 265Vac

 

Also when you rewired the unit did you go into the motor or just use the cables of the other capacitors?

 

Thanks,

Ant 

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

If the cables are in a good state you can attach the new caps to the old wiring, it is the easiest to do, insulate the connections to prevent contact with the covers.

[DericParticipant @deric]

Anthony, Hi,

Sorry for delay in replying – I am laid low by the ‘lurgy’ at the moment

 

If you are careful you can use the existing cables – don’t open the motors!

I cut the wires off as close as I could to the tags on the caps then crimped on new 1/4″ shrouded lucar terminals available at local motor factors, which gave me enough length to get the caps in position and the box lid back on. If not you will have to get the ssoledring iron out and very carefully lengthen and insulate the extended cables.

 

 

KWIL’s selection for the Start cap is good and my selection for the Run cap is also OK.

You can open account with RS online and purchase there and then.

If you decide to fit the 1.5hp motor to the lathe you must fit the motor overload from the mill. If I remember right you said the Lathe motor is 2hp? therefore the overloads on the lathe will/should be set slightly high for the 1.5hp motor.

 

Just for interest:-

 

 And

Not as good as they could be – taken with my old phone!

Regards

 

Deric

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