Warco GH universal milling machine dismantling advice

[Mark WebsterParticipant @markwebster13123]

might seem a strange request but I'm looking at purchasing the warco gh milling machine

http://www.warco.co.uk/milling-machines/38-gh-universal-milling-drilling-machine.html

But I have a big problem……the only access to my workshop is through my house 😳 So I'm going to have to dismantle the machine to get it into my workshop. Now I know this mill is a bit of a beast weighing 320kg. So what I was wanting to know if anyone else has done this and if so will I be able to carry the parts through the house or would I still need a trolley of some sort due to the weight. In which case it would be a no go for me to do.

You see I was planning on removing the motor,then the mill head and then the table. So in effect splitting it into 4 parts to carry through the house. Hence the advice on people who might have done this before and have an idea of the weight of the components

Many thanks

[Mark WebsterParticipant @markwebster13123]

[Ian ParkinParticipant @ianparkin39383]

I have a similar sized but slightly lighter mill the 30 size mill (240kg)

I took it to bits to go in my car and carried it through the house down 13 steps into my workshop and then reassembled just about manageable by myself ..if you have a second person its easy to move bits of say 100kg on a dolly even over carpet with some new plywood.

I would imagine your mill in 4 bits …base ,table,column and head all will be less than 100kg each

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Sounds like a plan. Having, like Ian, done similar twice I'd take the column off too. Half the battle with this carry heavy lump business is to get things into nicely shaped parts that can be "cuddle carried" pulled in close to your chest so your centre of gravity is pretty close to what you are used to.

Base plus column balances poorly. Second move was a two person affair. Mate said "leave the column on, we can manage". Should have gone with my better knowledge as it was a struggle. Weight wise was OK between two but keeping it balanced was not. Glad we had no stairs to cope with. Two steps quite bad enough.

Engine crane for dismantle and shift onto high table to minimise lifting after you cuddle it. If you can put raisers on the bench top so you only have to come down a few inches when unloading. Usual bench height means dropping a foot or more. Easy to run out of knee room and be tempted to bend your back. Bending back isn't a good idea. Consider setting up an unloading table outside the workshop because you will probably be bringing parts round in the wrong order and need to spread things out to re-assemble. No problem if you have loads of room but if you don't such a table is a godsend.

A weightlifters belt or similar is a good idea to help you keep straight. If you possibly can arrange some assistance. Doesn't have to be a lift rated person. Someone to give a bit of a shove to balance things properly as you lift, watch where you are putting your feet, untangle that rope, push that bit of wood along the bench so I don't pinch my fingers and so on makes a big difference. With a lump of cast iron cuddled to your chest you can't do anything. Somewhat annoying when you have to take it all the way back to unlimber safely 'cos you forgot to prop the workshop door open. 30 yards each way for me. Ooops!

Really there are no major issues providing you think your way round the little stuff which can trip you up.

Oh Don't Bend Your Back.

Clive.

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Get a sack barrow,, one with pneumatic tyres best, not dear. The best thing I've ever bought.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Not moved one of these but have shifted a lot of heavy items.

As Gordon, use a sack barrow if at all possible. Consider a stairwalker if negotiating several steps. Get plenty of timber packing pieces to make it easy to secure holding to the barrow (use a set of ratchet straps from the likes of L*dl).

The fewer components the better, if assistance is at hand for rebuild. An engine crane is a good aid, too!

And wear those "toe'tectors"!

[Mark WebsterParticipant @markwebster13123]

Thanks for all the comments guys 👍👍 as it's looking possible with all your comments . I would have liked to have used an engine crane or sack barrow but like I've said I've gotta take it through the house and something like an engine hoist just won't fit hence why I have to carry. It's going to be a case of wherever they deliver / unload it is where I'll have to dismantle it and I'm going to have to get it all moved the same day . So I'm just trying to get it all planned for the day. Good idea about taking the column off. I'm going to the Doncaster show to also see the actual size and how best to deal with it and also to get advice on how best to dismantle it. I just wanted to know also if the worse case was that if no one was available to help me , then I could do it on my own 😳😳

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Engine hoist is for taking it apart and lifting bits onto a high table ready to carry so the hoist doesn't have to go through the house. You really really want to avoid lifting from floor, or close too floor, level which is a strike against the sack barrow idea unless you have hoist capability at the workshop end.

If I were buying a sack barrow now I'd probably splash out on something like this :- **LINK** . Bit more expensive than the usual suspects but appears to be very nicely made and the three positions are very handy. I bought an economy Machine Mart special two position one, sack barrow or flat bed, donkeys years ago and its done me proud. Coped with serious overloading a time or three but the bottom of the range aspect shows. Would have been really handy to have the third, lay back on extra wheels, position when I bought my Pollard 15AY drill home.

Stair climber barrows are great for stairs and steps but they don't like going round corners. As they normally run on four wheels in closely coupled pairs the minimum curve radius is of railway proportions. Wouldn't be without mine but not ideal as the one and only.

Use gloves for handling. Preferably the proper type with grippy palms and fingers. I stock up from Lidl when they have them because they do proper sizes. Not the Small, Medium, Large crap which never quite fits. Especially as I have small size 6 mitts. Bit stretchy too which helps even more. Cheap enough that I don't care if I lunch a new pair on one job. I always figure that gloves you can buy, fingers (and backs) you can't.

Clive.

[Ian ParkinParticipant @ianparkin39383]

Where are you mark?

If you need any help on the day I'm available with dollys sack barrows jacks hoists etc

[BikepeteParticipant @bikepete]

"I would have liked to have used an engine crane or sack barrow but like I've said I've gotta take it through the house and something like an engine hoist just won't fit hence why I have to carry."

I'm finding it hard to imagine a house that a sack barrow won't go through, if you can walk through it. An engine crane is obviously a completely different beast, no chance in most houses. But most sack barrows are narrower than a typical internal door. Wonder if we're thinking the same sort of barrow? Upright, two wheels? e.g. one of these?

Massively safer IMO using one of those with the load strapped to it and close to the floor, than carrying 100 kg 'loose', even with two people.

Edited By Bikepete on 13/02/2017 17:32:53

[Mark WebsterParticipant @markwebster13123]

Ian I live between Worksop and Mansfield a little place called meden vale if that's any good. It would be great if you could assist if not then , Clive I like that link for the sack barrow that is a serious option 👍 Bikepete I totally agree with what you're saying as when I bought my universal sharpener that ways 50kg it was hard work carrying it through the house.

Ian if you don't live near by then I might see if I can rent a hoist then buy the sack barrow Clive mentioned . But it's always better if you can borrow 😊😊😊 for a one off job

[Martin 100Participant @martin100]

320kg? Broken into four bits? Even if they were equal weights and equally shared between two that's 40kg per person of very funny shaped bits of metal. Carrying a milling machine of that size and weight through a house, even broken down into smaller parts and even with two or more persons is IMHO nuts. Without a low wheeled platform or rollers, or skates on a smooth floor with the centre of gravity within a few inches of the ground you stand a very high chance of dropping the load, trashing your back or crushing a hand, foot or limb.

I'd also avoid either a sackbarrow and an engine crane for moving things like this, a small amount of digging in or a draggy wheel and both can rapidly become extremely unstable devices, for instance block paving, as near as dammit flat, is easily enough to upset many engine cranes. Many carpets will also require thick ply to enable wheels to move without dragging.

If you get it wrong, even slightly, the milling machine and the rest of your workshop may become redundant and you might end up fit only for a care home… or a rectangular box with shiny handles.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

As you haven't bought it yet have a look at the Chester equivalent. Unusually for these far eastern machines there are differences other than paint. I think the Chester version has more T-slots though this might only be the next bigger size. I thought they were pups from the same litter until I noticed this at the Ally Pally show.

Avoid taking off the column as you may lose registration with the base. Find out how it will be delivered – I expect not fitted to the stand if that is sold as a separate cost which makes taking it apart less difficult.
At Doncaster get some castors there are always some on sale and make two or three little skates about 18inches square. They will find other uses afterwards for ever.
The table will not sit well on a sack truck because the horizontal part is only big enough for a sack, not a machine tool. How often do you see a pro house mover using a sack truck ? never.

If you don't have access to an engine hoist have a look at your step ladder and your neighbour's. Two side by side with a couple of 4×2 between can carry a block and tackle to lift off the head. Bear in mind a ladder is rated to carry a 200lb lard ass builder but not a whole mill. Don't use a lever hoist aka 'come-along' in America as they are only rated for horizontal pulling. The reason is that although they can lift they cannot safely let down again – they are not designed to.

[Ian ParkinParticipant @ianparkin39383]

Mark i'm in south sheffield so not too far away shout away when you need help

Ian

I'm used to moving big machinery > 20 tonnes or so

Edited By Ian Parkin on 13/02/2017 19:20:56

[Mark WebsterParticipant @markwebster13123]

That's excellent Ian I've sent you a pm with my contact details if you send me yours by email cheers buddy

[Mark WebsterParticipant @markwebster13123]

Bazyle I did look at the Chester one but the specs are less. The warco one has a 2kw motor and powered downfeed 😊😊

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

I looked at this plus the Super Major which is even heavier and bigger and decided on the WM18. Although not as perilous as your route I will still have to get it from the garage, though a utility room, across wet grass into my workshop.

However the WM18 is 100KG less. My thought was I will have to dismantle it as while doing so may as well give a good clean and check. I thought remove the head, remove the pillar and remove the table and saddle making 5 manageable pieces, hopefully

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

petrol1head

Invest in a couple of sheets of shuttering ply for the trip over wet grass. Its a pain running over two sheets, shifting the first one and moving on. But much, much safer. If using sack barrow splash out for one with pneumatic tyres. Easier to move. Better behaved and might not go down too far if you run off the edge. Don't even think about using an old type one with solid metal wheels. One Bikepete linked to is excellent value for money although I think the one I found is worth the extra.

Clive

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

The sack barrow that Bikepete linked is the same as my new one. It goes thru' the house, does not spoil carpet or wood floor,.I've moved car engine over my very rough road and grass, in dry weather.

[Chris HembryParticipant @chrishembry84309]

+1 for the Chester SuperLux as the better version of the same machine. I have had one for 5 years + and 1HP is more than adequate for this size of machine. You'll also get the stand and DRO thrown in. Power downfeed on spindle sounds interesting, but not as handy as the Chester's powered head elevation. You will want to move the head rather more than just the spindle, and winding the handle is a chore.

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

My wife and I once carried my new Super 7 upstairs to my back bedroom workshop,with just the motor and tailstock removed,though it was 40 odd years ago. Recently I sold my J & S 540 grinder ,handbook weight 750 kilo grammes,the purchaser sent along two of his chaps,nice blokes and were they strong, they moved the grinder across the workshop floor on rollers which is easy until they got to the 2 inch drop in the floor, they asked if I had a good pallet which I did have,it has a 19mm ply top face , the two of them then tilted the machine backwards to its point of balance,one bloke held it while the other slid the pallet under it as far as it would go,then both of them tilted the machine forward onto the edge of the pallet ,and then pushed ,lifted and skidded it on to the pallet,all done in a few minutes,never seen anything like it ,when I installed the machine years ago it took me on my own half a morning too get it up the step with a chain hoist and packing and rollers,they then moved it easily outside on a pallet truck, then their crane lorry turned up it was so easy to load ,the crane could lift 8 tons at 7.5 metre radius,the the driver took the eight wheeler out of yard ,along the drive and out the gate without touching the lawn or gate posts, brilliant job.Couriers with transit vans make more mess and run over the drive edges.Over the years I have moved stationary engines up to 2 ton and installed a lot of machines in my workshop a lot of it on my own,and have acquired a lot of kit to move things as I have found it is best to wheel and roll heavy items and avoid manual lifting as it can all to often cause back injury,one of my really useful items is a couple of lengths of conveyor with rollers,these were use in an apple packing shed and the apple boxes rolled along on lengths of conveyor, the side frames were 2 inch angle with steel rollers about 16 inches long,I cut the them down to make a frame with 6 rollers,then turn them upside down so the rollers are on the ground and the frame with some extra angle welded on carry the load,a pair will carry well over a ton,they cost nothing and have been used to move machine tools,heavy stationary engines,etc if the grounds rough then lay down scaffold planks or plywood.

[Mark WebsterParticipant @markwebster13123]

Chris thanks for that but I've already got a Chester 20vs mill and decided if I'm going to upgrade I want something with plenty of torque for machining mild steel hence why I'm drawn to the 2kw motor. I will be fitting DRO but 3 axis , the Chester has only a 2 axis display so I would also have to upgrade that. Unless someone can give me other feed back then I'll stick with the warco GH but please don't think I'm ignoring the comments as I welcome all comments and feed back so I can make a good informed decision. I really appreciate people taking time to respond. I was originally just going to upgrade to the warco 18 mill but then when I read up on machine torque and how it works in relation to motor speed made me realise this would be a bad decision. I noticed warco do a gearhead version of the 18 model of the mill and would welcome any feedback on this as it only has a 1hp motor.

With regards to moving the machine I'm lucky as there is no grass to do over. It's just a case of getting it through my hallway,living room and conservatory 😊 Ian Parkin has kindly offered to come over and help which I can't thank him enough for his kind offer.

I love this site as it has so many members willing to help with advice may I thank you all as it's really appreciated 👍👍👍👍

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Here is a thought (after seeing their advertising that 'everyb machine comes assembled'

If delivered by their

own transport, would they supply it dismantled? They clearly have to certify it, but the advertising ("Warco GH Universal Mills are supplied fully assembled&quot

suggests these machines arrive in parts at Warco?

[Chris HembryParticipant @chrishembry84309]

No problem Mark. By choosing a gear head mill, you've already solved the torque issues that the 20vs will suffer from. The normal drilling capacity of these machines is 45mm with 1hp, and I can say that it manages this in steel all day if you want it to.

I'm sure Chester would fit a 3 axis DRO for you if you asked.

Personally, I can only see the powered spindle downfeed being really useful on boring head jobs, whereas the head elevation is used on nearly every tool change. To have both would be a nice feature, but I would not have spindle in place of head.

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

I managed to get a sack barrow of eBay

Have you considered the Super Major? When I was looking to buy a new mill I considered the Super Major and the GH Universal. I created a spreadsheet and worked out the cost of them . I wanted 3 axis DRO, power fed X axis and a stand.

The GH Universal came out at £3012 and the Super Major £3170. To me it was a no brainer, the Super Major had the Z power feed. Here is a video of the Super Major **LINK**

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