Vintage motorbike

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

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I realise this is not strictly model engineering but there is one running on aircraft. So here goes.

I saw this old rascal parked up in Warrington.

Nick

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Very nice too, Nick

… a "model" of engineering for one to follow.

MichaelG.

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

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Here is a video of Norton Commando that belongs to a friend of mine he restored a few years ago. He has 5 bikes in total but the Norton is his cherished favorite one.

Link to video :- **LINK**

Nick

[ronan walshParticipant @ronanwalsh98054]

Its amazing , but the british bike industry made a good few models of v-twin's in large capacities before the second world war, but only vincent made one after (maybe jap engines too ?). Bsa made a 1,000cc v-twin and it was marketed as a workhorse used to drag massive tradesmens sidecars about. The parallel twin was a developmental dead end compared to the better balanced v-twins.

[Bill PudneyParticipant @billpudney37759]

Posted by ronan walsh on 08/10/2014 00:42:58:

Its amazing , but the british bike industry made a good few models of v-twin's in large capacities before the second world war, but only vincent made one after (maybe jap engines too ?). Bsa made a 1,000cc v-twin and it was marketed as a workhorse used to drag massive tradesmens sidecars about. The parallel twin was a developmental dead end compared to the better balanced v-twins.

Hmmmm….. Big capacity V twins from say 1910 to 1940, built in relatively (compared to the single cylinder mainstay) small quantities; parallel twins built by all manufacturers from 1936 ish to 1970 to 1975 in huge numbers and varieties. If you include the new Norton 961, being built in numbers probably greater than Vincents, then the parallel twin is still going. Most tradesmen moved to Thames vans and their ilk in the 1960s.

Not arguing that the V twin is possibly the ideal engine layout for a motorcycle, but the parallel twin had a lot going for it, if only the manufacturers had paid more attention to vibration reduction. I wouldn't say that it was a developmental dead end, but that the manufacturers ran out of development budget.

This is a discussion that could go on for decades, it's already been going on since the mid thirties!

cheers

Bill

[Bill PudneyParticipant @billpudney37759]

Forgot to say, lovely looking bike Nick, enjoy it, well found!!

cheers

Bill

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Bill Pudney on 08/10/2014 03:27:12:

Posted by ronan walsh on 08/10/2014 00:42:58:

… The parallel twin was a developmental dead end compared to the better balanced v-twins.

…. but the parallel twin had a lot going for it, if only the manufacturers had paid more attention to vibration reduction.

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I think that Edward Turner deserves much of the credit for the change of direction.

… and, of course, the rather incestuous nature of the British motorcycle industry.

MichaelG.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Hesketh built a V twin for a while, not in huge numbers though.

Mike

[richard allen 6Participant @richardallen6]

Posted by ronan walsh on 08/10/2014 00:42:58:

Its amazing , but the british bike industry made a good few models of v-twin's in large capacities before the second world war, but only vincent made one after (maybe jap engines too ?). Bsa made a 1,000cc v-twin and it was marketed as a workhorse used to drag massive tradesmens sidecars about. The parallel twin was a developmental dead end compared to the better balanced v-twins. Have we forgotten the Hesketh?

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

The triple has a lot going for it as a bike engine, the sound of a works Trident or Rocket III has to be one of the best sounds ever from the 60/70s.

Mike

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Michael Poole on 08/10/2014 07:43:48:

The triple has a lot going for it as a bike engine, the sound of a works Trident or Rocket III has to be one of the best sounds ever from the 60/70s.

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Agreed 100%, Mike

… I still remember our visit to the BSA factory [pre-launch], when they had a Triple on the Rolling-Road dyno. [Edit: correction – I don't think it was a proper Rolling-Road, just rollers]

… Spine-tingling.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 08/10/2014 08:02:58

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Beautiful bike, and not a common one either. The question is, where does the Queen keep her chickens? Micheal Gilligan, You lucky lucky man! a visit to BSA! My dream bike was the rocket three, but I had to make do with an old plunger A10 Gold flash. Our local motorcycle shop was Watkinson Motors in Scarborough, and the owners son had a Rocket 3, he used to barrel through our village playing tunes with the gearbox! The best school trip I got was Parkgate Steelworks in Rotheram, then on to Moore and Wrights in Sheffield!

Phil

[MichaelRParticipant @michaelr]

A nice bike and well travelled, going by the number plate, registered in the highlands of Scotland Inverness or Nairn.

Those were the days when you could tell where vehicles came from by their number plates.

Mike.

Edited By Stick on 08/10/2014 09:13:25

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Drool drool drool!

What is that chrome disc for, RHS on the petrol/oil tank?

Makes my CB350 Twin look like very plain indeed.

MichaelP,

Talking about the Trident, a chap living opposite us in SA had one, and the sound it made reminded both brother and I of the BRM F1 car. (not the H16 of coarse, which has a sound all of its own)

My 350 twin had an odd sound as well.

Geoff – Trying to decide what to do today.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Bill Pudney on 08/10/2014 03:27:12:

… the parallel twin had a lot going for it, if only the manufacturers had paid more attention to vibration reduction.

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… They did, of course, in the wonderful little Ariel Arrow [an innovative, and very cleverly production-engineered machine] … but that was a two-stroke.

MichaelG.

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Just to stir things up a bit- I used to own and run a BSA V twin, 500cc.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by OuBallie on 08/10/2014 09:17:32:

Drool drool drool!

Geoff – Trying to decide what to do today.

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Geoff,

Whilst you are drooling; I hope you saw the Austin pics. that I posted via the "What did you do today" thread.

[ that thread is quite busy, so you may have missed them]

MichaelG.

[Roger Williams 2Participant @rogerwilliams2]

Hello all, if you like Nortons, this ones mine. Please look in my photos !!

Edited By Roger Williams 2 on 08/10/2014 10:32:15

Edited By Roger Williams 2 on 08/10/2014 10:34:17

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Very nice, Roger !L

No balance problems with that one, I presume.

MichaelG.

[HacksawParticipant @hacksaw]

Maybe you motorbike nutters would like this thread on another forum i use ? **LINK**

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by OuBallie on 08/10/2014 09:17:32:

Drool drool drool!

What is that chrome disc for, RHS on the petrol/oil tank?

I think it quite likely is a blanking plug for the hole where the optional speedo would have gone.

Lovely old bike. And certainly one worth building a model of. And so quite appropriate to post here. As the number of responses indicates!

MMMM, I had a Rocket 3 with a 3-into-1 extractor exhuast system feeding one gutted megaphone. Now THAT was a noise never to be forgotten. Beautiful bikes. Fast (for the day), handled beautifully, looked like the bike that Buck Rogers would have ridden. But impossible to keep oil tight for any length of time under hard use, and much more fiddly than the twins to do a quick top end rebuild on.

One reason Brit factories liked the parallel twins was they were cheaper to produce than a v-twin. Parallel twin (except Matchless) had both heads in one casting and both barrels in one casting too. So only one set up to machine both heads. Vs two set ups to machine two separate v-twin heads. Ditto barrels. And vertical twin needed only one camshaft, with one set of drive gears. Whereas v-twins need at least two cams and often had four, with associated long string of expensive and noisy gears.

I dont think the v-twins were any smoother than the vertical twins. The original 350 and 500 vertical twins ran very sweetly. It was only when they were stroked/punched out to 650, 750 and beyond that vibration became a problem. But anyone who has ridden a pre-rubber mount Harley will know that smoothness is not part of the mystique. Althlough perhaps the old low-revving, low compression Enfield in the OP was from a kinder gentler age in that respect.

[Roger Williams 2Participant @rogerwilliams2]

Michael, you are right, no balance problems !. Another factory destroyed by crap management.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> What is that chrome disc for, RHS on the petrol/oil tank?

A tax disc holder. You youngsters wouldn't remember those

I can't help thinking there are lots of pound shops with boxes of redundant tax disc holders and second hand car dealers with their custom, printed ones. Will some bright spark invent a way of recycling them?

The Enfield is a lovely bit of machinery, Nick

I understand that Ketan appreciates their finer points

Neil

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Hi all, Sorry Mr Gilligan the Ariel Arrow was a 180 deg twin, not a parralell., but they were as you say a brilliant bit of design, if only they had used twin carbs instead of a single carb single port setup through the engine mount, it would have been a jap killer! I bought a job lot of Arrows in the seventies, there were three arrows and a special racer in a tubular frame, along with a 250cc 4 valve Rudge grass bike which would be worth a fortune now, happy days!

Phil

PS, so no one knows where the Queen keeps her chickens then, I am surprised at you all! It is relevant to the original post.

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