Vickers Bl 8 inch Howitzer cannon of 1917

[mal webberParticipant @malwebber91786]

Thanks Dave, Maurice thanks for your input and your right I have looked at many pictures before I started building the wheels to see which way the strakes are angled and each picture has them different on the vickers Bl 8 inch mkVI , think i have just about seen every picture the webb can offer, but I came across this youtube video which has a short part of the gun on the factory floor, so I based the direction of the strakes on this, here is a link its at 8.59 on the video.

 

Thanks Mal

Edited By mal webber on 31/03/2019 10:35:39

Edited By mal webber on 31/03/2019 10:42:59

Edited By mal webber on 31/03/2019 10:44:51

[mal webberParticipant @malwebber91786]

Sorry tried to but a link to the video but nut sure how, the video is ,,Armaments Manufacture R3/3 220740-04 Footage Farm . AdrianR good point could well be down to that.

Thanks Mal.

Edited By mal webber on 31/03/2019 10:53:38

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by mal webber on 30/03/2019 01:26:52:

Thanks for the interest everyone .Maurice on the wheels the manual reads that the slats or strakes are for grip on soft ground, but looking on the way the slats are angled would bush the wheel inwards to the chassis on firing rather than trying to force them outwards, I mite be wrong but if anyone knows different be nice here.

 

Mal

I think you're right to focus on firing as being the reason for having strakes on the wheel. The driven rear wheels on a traction engine are straked to improve grip while the front wheels are left smooth. Presumably because straking the front wheels would increase friction to no good purpose.

In 1917 managing recoil was still only a part-solved problem. When a gun is fired 'every action has an equal and opposite reaction', so on firing artillery jumps violently backwards. Plenty of examples on WW1 film of large guns rolling up ramps positioned to absorb recoil and smaller guns jumping entirely off the ground. This movement badly disturbs accuracy and aim and the gun has to be reset on every shot, greatly slowing down rate of fire. On an ideal artillery piece the barrel should return exactly to the firing position ready for the next shot or to allow rapid and accurate adjustment of aim. Considerable effort has to go into the recoil system and ways unwanted energy can be transferred to ground. Springs, hydraulic recuperators, splayed trails with spade ends, jacks, brakes, concrete emplacements, gun-pits, tram-lines, ramps and pretty much every other method tried. I think strakes on artillery wheels are provided to help stop the gun sliding backwards when it's fired, not to 'improve grip' when it's being towed.

I hadn't thought before that the direction of the strakes made a difference. But it must be true that one way tends to push the wheel on to the axle, whereas the other would tend to push the wheels off. I'd guess that 'pushing on' would put less stress on the wheel bearing whilst 'pushing off' would provide better braking. Or does it make no practical difference. I don't know! Can anyone do the sums?

Dave

PS.  Might also matter that strakes on both wheels are matched, with both levering in the same direction the gun would tend to crab sideways.

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 31/03/2019 11:05:49

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 31/03/2019 11:13:56

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Maurice on 31/03/2019 00:58:03:

Hi Mal;

…

As far as I can see, pictures of them in service generally show them fitted the opposite way to how yours are temporarily set up,

…

Maurice

Think I'm with Maurice on this – two You Tubes I found of these howitzers shooting both showed the top strakes slanted rear inside to front outside, and both guns recoiling and returning straight as far as could be seen. There seems to have been a much wider type of wheel employed on some examples.

Doh! Teach me to go off 'arf-cocked … just seen about a 2-second counter-example in one of those 2 vids…

Edited By Mick B1 on 31/03/2019 12:36:36

…and there are similar contradictions in illustrative diagrams in the (US) Handbook of the 8-inch Howitzer Materiel, Model of 1917 (Vickers Mk.VI). Couldn't readily see anything ordering removal and refit of wheels ar$e-about-face if firing within specific elevation ranges or other contingencies, so my guess is it didn't matter as long as the strake slant was opposite on each side.

Edited By Mick B1 on 31/03/2019 12:56:41

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Mick B1 on 31/03/2019 12:29:56:

Posted by Maurice on 31/03/2019 00:58:03:

Hi Mal;

…

As far as I can see, pictures of them in service generally show them fitted the opposite way to how yours are temporarily set up,

…

Maurice

Think I'm with Maurice on this – two You Tubes I found of these howitzers shooting both showed the top strakes slanted rear inside to front outside, and both guns recoiling and returning straight as far as could be seen. There seems to have been a much wider type of wheel employed on some examples.

Doh! Teach me to go off 'arf-cocked … just seen about a 2-second counter-example in one of those 2 vids…

Edited By Mick B1 on 31/03/2019 12:36:36

…and there are similar contradictions in illustrative diagrams in the (US) Handbook of the 8-inch Howitzer Materiel, Model of 1917 (Vickers Mk.VI). Couldn't readily see anything ordering removal and refit of wheels ar$e-about-face if firing within specific elevation ranges or other contingencies, so my guess is it didn't matter as long as the strake slant was opposite on each side.

Edited By Mick B1 on 31/03/2019 12:56:41

Don't forget human error! Soldiers are as unlikely to read the effing manual as the rest of us. Perhaps much less likely if they were trained in a hurry and are being shot at!

One of WW2's more embarrassing cock-ups was the large consignment of new British tanks painfully shipped the long way to Egypt where most of the engines seized in the depot because no one read the instructions. To avoid spillages in transit the tanks were shipped with no oil or water in the engines…

Dave

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 31/03/2019 13:19:50:

Posted by Mick B1 on 31/03/2019 12:29:56:

Posted by Maurice on 31/03/2019 00:58:03:

…

One of WW2's more embarrassing cock-ups was the large consignment of new British tanks painfully shipped the long way to Egypt where most of the engines seized in the depot because no one read the instructions. To avoid spillages in transit the tanks were shipped with no oil or water in the engines…

Dave

By 'eck, that's a dreadful story! I always heard that more tanks were lost to mechanical failure than enemy action – at least in the early part of the North African campaign, but my uncle's stories were that it was sand getting in everywhere. But there were later tales of tanks (Valentines, I thought?) running 3000 miles without major servicing.

[mal webberParticipant @malwebber91786]

Hello all, small update on the Howitzer build finally finished the wheel rims which seem to take an age to complete, I found it a little more difficult than the 2" rear minne traction engine wheels as the strakes have a rivet head on both sides on the full size gun and not hammered flat into a countersunk hole like the traction engine wheels,every eighth strake has a larger hole with the rivet missing for a bar to be inserted for leverage to aid movement of the traversing movement when on the firing platform, here are couple pictures to see how its looking.

Thanks Mal.

[Old SchoolParticipant @oldschool]

Superb workmanship really enjoying the build you are doing.

[vintage engineerParticipant @vintageengineer]

Having worked on heavy plant in Africa, we used to have a devils own job trying to get the local operators to loosen the tracks when working in sandy areas! Sand gets in the track pins and tightens everything up and breaks the tracks. It also makes them squeal like a bastard!

Posted by Mick B1 on 31/03/2019 18:44:59:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 31/03/2019 13:19:50:

Posted by Mick B1 on 31/03/2019 12:29:56:

Posted by Maurice on 31/03/2019 00:58:03:

…

One of WW2's more embarrassing cock-ups was the large consignment of new British tanks painfully shipped the long way to Egypt where most of the engines seized in the depot because no one read the instructions. To avoid spillages in transit the tanks were shipped with no oil or water in the engines…

Dave

By 'eck, that's a dreadful story! I always heard that more tanks were lost to mechanical failure than enemy action – at least in the early part of the North African campaign, but my uncle's stories were that it was sand getting in everywhere. But there were later tales of tanks (Valentines, I thought?) running 3000 miles without major servicing.

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

Mal, that is truly a thing of beauty. As said before there is some cracking work there. Keep posting please, very interesting.

Paul.

[mal webberParticipant @malwebber91786]

Thanks for the interest guy's , mill some slots in the hubs and make some spokes is the next step on the Howitzer build.

Mal.

[Maurice Cox 1Participant @mauricecox1]

Those wheels are superb! Looking forward to seeing them complete. Speaking of looking forward, did these guns have breach blocks with an interrupted thread?

Maurice

[mal webberParticipant @malwebber91786]

Hi Maurice ,yes they have picture below.

 

Thanks Mal.

Edited By mal webber on 06/04/2019 13:45:25

[mal webberParticipant @malwebber91786]

Hi all ,still on the wheels been busy milling the spokes for the last few days did think about getting these laser cut but where is the fun in that ,so all 32 spokes done and milled the slots in the hubs, now to put all parts together and make a wheel, couple pics below on how i got along .

Thanks Mal.

[mal webberParticipant @malwebber91786]

Hello all ,well got up at the crack of dawn today and in the shed well before 7am and managed to get one set of spokes done on one wheel except the outer rim rivets and the outer parts of the hubs,after getting the spokes on the one wheel sorted and placing it together with the trail to see if every thing looks about right I decided to dig out some parts of the 2" minnie traction engine out that i'am in the middle of building .And that's when I got a bit carried away and placed the traction engine together with the howitzer which is about 2" scale and also got carried away with taking pictures, but what the hell here they are …..

Thanks Mal.

[PlasmaParticipant @plasma]

Looking good Mal, excellent photos describing the processes. Love the engine too.

Mick

[Old SchoolParticipant @oldschool]

The wheel looks stunning superb work.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Awesome work Mal.

A future medal winner?

Neil

[JC54Participant @jc54]

Superb looking Job. Isn't that combination going to look impressive and unique at shows/rallies. Keep up the brilliant work.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Superb! am looking forward to your take on the breech block build with interrupted thread.

George.

[mal webberParticipant @malwebber91786]

Thanks for the interest guy's ,after pulling the traction engine out and placing it together on the bench with the Howitzer it makes think how much there's to do, all good fun though. George there are a few parts on this cannon that's going to be a first for me the breach block being one of them so looking forward myself to having a go at it.

Thanks Mal.

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

I am in awe Mal
Photographic realism in 3D
Looking forward to your next post

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Lot of us running out of superlatives here…

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Super-latives who dem? …. I have a few re-latives

George.

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by mechman48 on 15/04/2019 14:01:04:

Super-latives who dem? …. I have a few re-latives

George.

Sorry, old chap – remembering Latin from school – adjective/comparative/superlative : eg. bonus (good)/melior (better)/optimus (best).

This thing looks as if it'll be bumping along the ceiling of the optimus class.

Mal, I think you should apply for a Firearm Certificate, make up the Welin screw breech to work, and take it down to Stickledown at Bisley and see what it can do at 1000 yards …

[Author]

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